# 16 People On Things They Couldn’t Believe About America Until They Moved Here **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 15, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954 "2013-11-15T01:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/261 "2013-11-26T16:29:58Z")
Looking at this, I found [this article](http://www.cnbc.com/id/41498097), which said (in part, **emphasis** mine): > [@](#): > > In Europe, it varies by country but generally, Coghill says “Each loan application is reviewed based on your current salary, your family situation, current debts, residence status, and other factors. However, if you don’t make timely payments on loans, the lender puts you in a special file that’s shared by all lenders across most of Europe, and you’ll have a great deal of difficulty getting a loan.” > > In the U.K., there are three credit reference agencies, and lenders also take into account court judgments and **whether the borrower has voted in elections**. If a US lender did that to determine credit-worthiness, they could be sued. Here’s what Wiki has to say about credit ratings in the UK: > [@](#): > > The most popular statistical technique used is logistic regression to predict a binary outcome, such as bad debt or no bad debt. Some banks also build regression models that predict the amount of bad debt a customer may incur. Typically, this is much harder to predict, and most banks focus only on the binary outcome. > > Credit scoring is only closely regulated by the Financial Services Authority when used for the purposes of the Advanced approach to Capital Adequacy under Basel II regulations. > > It is very difficult for a consumer to know in advance whether they have a high enough credit score to be accepted for credit with a particular lender. This is due to the complexity and structure of credit scoring, which differs from one lender to another. > > Also, lenders do not have to reveal their credit score head, nor do they have to reveal the minimum credit score required for the applicant to be accepted. Simply due to this lack of information to the consumer, it is impossible for him or her to know in advance if they will pass a lender’s credit scoring requirements. > > If the applicant is declined for credit, the lender is also not obliged to reveal the exact reason why. However Industry Associations, such as the Finance and Leasing Association, oblige their members to provide a high level reason. Credit bureau data sharing agreements also require that an applicant declined due to credit bureau data is told that this is the reason and the address of the credit bureau must be provided. > **[Credit score](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_score#United_Kingdom)** > > A credit score is a numerical expression based on a level analysis of a person's credit files, to represent the creditworthiness of an individual. A credit score is primarily based on a credit report, information typically sourced from credit bureaus. > Lenders, such as banks and credit card companies, use credit scores to evaluate the potential risk posed by lending money to consumers and to mitigate losses due to bad debt. Lenders use credit scores to determine who qualifies for a loan, at what... Yeah… I prefer our system better. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/262 "2013-11-26T17:11:22Z")
> [@staili](#): > > I didn’t realize until very recently that most European butter is made from fermented/cultured cream. > > While there are savory pies in the US, if you said to someone, “Do you want some pie?,” 99+% of people would automatically assume that you were talking about dessert. I don’t know if that would be true in other countries or not. This. The generic, unqualified term “pie” generally means a sweet pie. If you want a different kind of pie, you need to be more specific, such as asking for a “chicken pot pie”. This is the same thing that is going on in the military with the difference between “officer” and “non-commissioned officer”. Technically, an NCO _is_ an officer, but the term “officer”, standing alone, is understood to mean “_commissioned_ officer”. In some places in the northeast, pizzas may be called “pies” or “pizza pies”. Certainly, if you walk into an Italian restaurant in Newark, NJ and ask for a “pie” as the entree, you’re going to get a pizza. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/263 "2013-11-26T17:32:54Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > In some places in the northeast, pizzas may be called “pies” or “pizza pies”. Certainly, if you walk into an Italian restaurant in Newark, NJ and ask for a “pie” as the entree, you’re going to get a pizza. The important distinction here is between “pie” and “_a_ pie.” ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/264 "2013-11-26T18:11:43Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The important distinction here is between “pie” and “_a_ pie.” The lack of a definite article will get a dessert tray brought out in the States. The cynic in me says that our consumer-based mindset here in the US means that your credit score is how you’re valued by ‘the powers that be’; how much can you afford and why affects how much they’ll profit so nothing else matters, as profit is all that matters. As a great man once said, “Bollocks! Not compared to how people matter.”; but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/265 "2013-11-26T18:16:29Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > 4 have (including me) 2 haven’t. I guess if you get accepted for a mortgage then why would your credit rating concern you? Your credit score affects the interest rate on loans - the lower the score, the higher the rate. It’s like a bond rating. Also, credit ratings affect more than bank loans. Companies will look at credit ratings when making hiring decisions, for example. Landlords look at the credit scores of potential renters. Insurance companies look at the scores of their policy holders. Banks have always looked at the creditworthiness of people who apply for loans. With the credit score system, three companies have taken over a lot of the work of evaluating creditworthiness from the banks. These companies don’t just calculate the credit scores of people when they apply for loans - they keep them for everyone all the time, and update them regularly. The fact that these numbers exist all the time (instead of just on demand) has helped them take on a life of their own. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/266 "2013-11-26T18:39:37Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > 4 have (including me) 2 haven’t. I guess if you get accepted for a mortgage then why would your credit rating concern you? Because you may want to refinance, buy another house, or acquire another credit product, such as a car loan or credit card. Your credit score (which is just a numerical summary of the statistics in your credit report) affects what products are available to you and at what interest rate. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/267 "2013-11-26T20:04:50Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Because you may want to refinance, buy another house, or acquire another credit product, such as a car loan or credit card. Your credit score (which is just a numerical summary of the statistics in your credit report) affects what products are available to you and at what interest rate. Sounds too complicated for my liking but then I’ve always lived within my means so that might explain why I’ve never worried about whether my rating is “good” or “bad” andlooking at the info upthread it sounds like no-one is obliged to tell me how I score anyway. As for varying interest rates according to credit scores, that again is something I’ve never heard of. In the UK I was under the impression that loans and mortgages were sold as specific “products” and that is the company accepts you for it then you pay the interest rate as advertised, not a sliding scale dictated by a “credit score”. I stand to be corrected of course as I am fairly clueless about money (thankfully as long as there is about enough it has never really interested me) ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/268 "2013-11-26T20:05:05Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > **Companies will look at credit ratings when making hiring decisions, for example.** Landlords look at the credit scores of potential renters.\*\* Insurance companies look at the scores of their policy holders\*\*. I can understand the landlords checking out the credit-rating of prospective tenants, but I fail to see what interest a company looking to hire staff should have in my ability to pay bills etc. Maybe I’ve been unemployed and broke for a while, which is why I desperately need a job! If I’m otherwise qualified and considered for the position, I suggest it should be grounds for a discrimination case if I’m knocked back because I was late on a gas bill 12 months ago. :dubious: And as far as insurance goes, again, why does it matter? If I don’t pay my premium, the policy lapses: simple! The insurance companies will suffer no consequences if I fail to pay on time. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/269 "2013-11-26T20:12:58Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Sounds too complicated for my liking but then I’ve always lived within my means so that might explain why I’ve never worried about whether my rating is “good” or “bad” andlooking at the info upthread it sounds like no-one is obliged to tell me how I score anyway. > > As for varying interest rates according to credit scores, that again is something I’ve never heard of. > In the UK I was under the impression that loans and mortgages were sold as specific “products” and that is the company accepts you for it then you pay the interest rate as advertised, not a sliding scale dictated by a “credit score”. > I stand to be corrected of course as I am fairly clueless about money (thankfully as long as there is about enough it has never really interested me) It could very well be that way. However, just because you are unaware of your credit score does not mean you don’t have one and that it doesn’t affect you - you do have one, you just don’t know about it. It’s used on you and, as mentioned earlier in this thread, the company that is giving you this credit score (Experian) is headquartered in your country, not ours. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/270 "2013-11-26T20:13:29Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > If a US lender did that to determine credit-worthiness, they could be sued. They don’t care whether you voted or not (and how could they know anyway?), but being on the electoral roll _is_ a factor. I guess it helps establish identity, length of residence at current address etc. I’ve no idea how big a factor it is though. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/271 "2013-11-26T20:17:55Z")
In the US, most adults establish identity via drivers licenses and social security numbers. I don’t think I ever had somebody ask for my voter ID card in order to establish credit. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/272 "2013-11-26T20:20:50Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Sounds too complicated for my liking but then I’ve always lived within my means so that might explain why I’ve never worried about whether my rating is “good” or “bad” andlooking at the info upthread it sounds like no-one is obliged to tell me how I score anyway. The credit rating agencies in the UK are obliged to give you the information they hold on you - things like loan applications, defaults etc. It occasionally happens that there is something in error on your file, say, a default by a family member at the same address. It’s worth checking at least once in a while, and definitely after a big life event like a divorce. However, the financial institutions that use the credit agencies raw data to evaluate you as a risk are not obliged to tell you how they do it. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/273 "2013-11-26T20:22:10Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > It could very well be that way. However, just because you are unaware of your credit score does not mean you don’t have one and that it doesn’t affect you - you do have one, you just don’t know about it. It’s used on you and, as mentioned earlier in this thread, the company that is giving you this credit score (Experian) is headquartered in your country, not ours. perhaps, still It seems to me that given a similar group of professional people in the USA it would be unusual for all of them to be clueless about the intricacies of a “credit score” yes? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/274 "2013-11-26T20:30:48Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > perhaps, still It seems to me that given a similar group of professional people in the USA it would be unusual for all of them to be clueless about the intricacies of a “credit score” yes? I’m surprised that a group of professional people in the UK don’t know about credit ratings. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/275 "2013-11-26T20:31:40Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > perhaps, still It seems to me that given a similar group of professional people in the USA it would be unusual for all of them to be clueless about the intricacies of a “credit score” yes? The Credit score fanaticism in the US is really only about 15 years old. They used them before that but nobody really knew what was going on. Then around that time the Government actually decided to do something useful, and started forcing the system to become more transparent and accountable. Any time you apply for a loan they have to give you a copy of what they received from the bureau, and the requirement that the report must be available for free at least once a year. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/276 "2013-11-26T20:35:19Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > perhaps, still It seems to me that given a similar group of professional people in the USA it would be unusual for all of them to be clueless about the intricacies of a “credit score” yes? According to the Wiki cite, no, it wouldn’t be unusual. It doesn’t appear that there is much transparency in the UK system, and that credit scores are being used without your knowledge. > **[Equifax UK | Credit Scores and Credit Reports](https://www.equifax.co.uk/)** > > Get the credit you deserve. Find out and monitor your credit score. Get practical tips on improving your score with the Equifax credit report. > **[Experian | Credit Scores, Reports & Credit Comparison](https://www.experian.co.uk/)** > > Check your Free Credit Score, get your credit report, or compare credit cards, loans & mortgages with Experian UK. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/277 "2013-11-26T20:50:50Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > The lack of a definite article will get a dessert tray brought out in the States. > > … Indefinite artice. So if I visit a bakery and ask if they sell pies, will they think I am refering to the dessert? ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/278 "2013-11-26T21:10:23Z")
Yes, unless that bakery is also a pizzeria on the east coast. Out here in flyover country, I’ve never heard a pizza referred to as a pie. Kind of like [this](http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/48vp8f/comedy-central-presents-let-s-split-a-pie) (video starts immediately). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/279 "2013-11-26T21:21:24Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > 've never heard a pizza referred to as a pie. Not even when the sun hits your eye? ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954/280 "2013-11-26T21:22:19Z")
That’s amore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-people-on-things-they-couldn-t-believe-about-america-until-they-moved-here/673954.md?page=15)