# 16 year old girl hanged because she had a 'sharp tongue' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 22, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944 "2004-08-22T05:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/101 "2004-08-22T23:01:48Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > So far, I have only seen one person argue for the extermination of that entire culture. I, for one, consider that culture to be utterly wrong in its morality, but I am not arguing for the extermination of its people. Not in the least. You can destroy a culture without destroying its people. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/102 "2004-08-22T23:11:43Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > So while we have a culture that we can cluck our tongues over for their repressive laws toward sexuality or women, we are not actually witnessing an entire culture oppressing a young girl so much as we are witnessing a specific judge who is taking out his own wrath on a girl for daring to rebuke him in public. Note that his actions put him in violation of his own laws. Given the number of falsely imprisoned and even executed people in this country, (often based on either the incompetence or the malice of the authorities), it would seem that a more appropriate anger would be toward all people in authority who abuse their power rather than one more “aren’t _those_ people bad?” rant. Speaking as a fellow liberal and Democrat, I am saddened to see that you fall into that sad category of liberal who cannot simply condemn a barbaric act by another country, but have to turn it into a chance to berate the U.S. You are giving ammunition to the conservatives who charge that liberals are a bunch of holier-than-thou types who turn every outrage perpetrated in another country into a chance to condemn the U.S. A little straight-up moral outrage against evil outside the U.S. without making a domestic issue out of it would do you a lot of good. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/103 "2004-08-22T23:25:32Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > More here: [[FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great :: View topic - The Most Wanted Mullahs In Response To 16 Year Old Girl](http://www.activistchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3661) > > The Islamic judge even took it upon himself to tie the noose around the girl’s neck. Also apparently the girl was not executed by “regular” hanging (breaking the neck) but was lifted slowly into the air – a protracted and very painful death by slow suffocation. Ahh well. Gotta love Sharia! Stoning and slow strangulation all brought to us by the mercy of the Religion of Peace. Gah! > > It makes rats ass difference whether it’s laws or not, actually worse, as it just codifies despicable acts. Even so lets not pretend the laws in Iran are enacted in a democracy. They’re ruled by a bunch of camel-shagging Islamic mullahs regurgitating fascistic laws of paedophilia, misogyny and anti-Semitism that were considered barbaric in the Middle Ages. > > Fuck Khomeini. The culture of Islamic fascism should be wiped out! In Iran as it should everywhere. But saying the Islamic fascism currently riding Iran like a mare is equivalent to the whole of Iranian culture is insulting to say the least. Persia has a long and proud tradition of cultured enlightenment and restraint. The Islamic fuckheads currently in power is an abnormality that should be cut out like a lump of cancer. I’m with you on the Islamic fuckheads, except that I understand they have a lot of popular support especially in tke rural areas of Iran. Just like the Nazis didn’t turn Germany into what it became all they themselves – a lot of ordinary Germans wholeheartedly supported them, or perhaps halfheartedly supported them. I suspect that the severity of the judge’s reaction may have something to do about the tensions between the young, urban Iranian and the old mullahs in Iran. I personally would be all for killing all the old mullahs, just don’t know if it would solve the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/104 "2004-08-22T23:35:31Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I personally would be all for killing all the old mullahs, just don’t know if it would solve the problem. Well, it’s a place to start. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/105 "2004-08-23T00:01:23Z")
It would be a very good place to start. Now what was that old quote about the guy not speaking up for others, and when they came for him there was no one left to speak up? Many of you good folks don’t believe in God. Neither here nor there. In this case though, it would be nice to know for sure that The Big Guy had some “special attention” planned for this shitbag judge and all his mullah buddies. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/106 "2004-08-23T00:12:17Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Anytime, dipshit. Since the condemnation in this thread of what happened is surely a result of your brilliant insight, Rush, I suppose I should thank you. Your political acumen has doubtless opened the eyes of dozens of posters here. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/107 "2004-08-23T01:00:06Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > You can destroy a culture without destroying its people. Maybe sometimes that’s a good thing. We destroyed the Nazi culture after World War II, and we’re better off for it. Destroying the culture of religious extremism could be worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/108 "2004-08-23T01:58:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Speaking as a fellow liberal and Democrat, I am saddened to see that you fall into that sad category of liberal who cannot simply condemn a barbaric act by another country, but have to turn it into a chance to berate the U.S. Oh, piffle. This event has been used by several posters to launch the stereotypical “evil culture” of Islam schtick despite the evidence that this was a horrific act by one out-of-control local official. Claims have been treated as fact that the girl was being tried for having been raped and that she was sentenced to death for having sex and the arguments based on those claims have continued despite the fact that evidence has been presented that the one claim is purely false conjecture and the other is probably incorrect. I fully condemn the actions of the judge. However, I also note that, according to the stories, themselves, the judge acted in violation of the law of Iran (trial with no defense attorney and fraudulent claim of the girl’s age). I see no reason why we should set this extra-legal travesty of justice up as an example of Iranian or Islamic law to condemn that culture unless we are also willing to point out cases where malice or incompetence leading to the execution or imprisonment of the innocent should condemn our entire society and culture. The actions of the judge are unconscionable. There is not yet evidence that the actions of the judge represent the will of the people of Iran, (or even of the mullahs, given the purjured evidence that the judge appears to have submitted to them–and I _have_ condemned the mullahs on previous occasions, although I did not confuse them with Islam any more than I have confused Pat Roberston or Ian Paisely with Christianity or Meir Kohane with Judaism). If the next week brings out a story demonstrating that the Muslim world is in complete agreement with the actions of the judge, I will condemn that society. (If the evidence presented turns out to have been twisted to get the “appropriate” reactions, I am going to withhold that condemnation.) (It should also be noted that there are, at the moment, only two stories (repeated in several places) about this incident in English on the internet. Each has its source in an opposition group to the government of Iran. The less nuanced story is being gleefully repeated on several “Christian” sites. We have, as yet, nothing resembling a third-party verification that the event actually happened or that it happened in the way that it has been presented to us.) (BTW, I am neither a liberal nor a Democrat.) ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/109 "2004-08-23T02:02:51Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Now what was that old quote about the guy not speaking up for others, and when they came for him there was no one left to speak up? _In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up. -Martin Niemoeller_ ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/110 "2004-08-23T02:54:05Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > You can destroy a culture without destroying its people. Yeah. That too. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/111 "2004-08-23T02:58:36Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > This is such bullshit. All you reactionary rightwingers come swooping in here to lump the leftist call for cultural tolerance in with the execution of a 16 year old rape victim. Riiiiight; it’s just exactly the more leftwing among us who are more likely to condone this kind of act. > > What a bunch of assholes. Nonsense. Nobody here is condemning cultural tolerance _per se_. What we are condemning is the tendency to excuse such atrocities in the name of cultural tolerance Cultural tolerance is fine, but not to the point of excusing such abominable acts. And since hnobody here is is condeming the need for cultural tolerance _per se_, it seems to me that you’re the one who’s spreading bovine excrement, and acting like an orifice. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/112 "2004-08-23T03:24:45Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Maybe sometimes that’s a good thing. We destroyed the Nazi culture after World War II, and we’re better off for it. Destroying the culture of religious extremism could be worthwhile. That’s my point. Why exterminate the people when you can alter their culture? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/113 "2004-08-23T03:32:17Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > That’s my point. Why exterminate the people when you can alter their culture? Less work? ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/114 "2004-08-23T04:22:10Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > I > Yes, some Federal crimes have the death penalty, as well as some military ones, but there are large portions of the US where there is no death penalty in force for any regular crime (murder, etc) as one defines it. So kindly stop saying “America” and “Americans” in the generic sense. > > [http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=121&scid=11](http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=121&scid=11) I promise not to ever again. I had worked myself into a little lather last night and was wrongly generalising. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/115 "2004-08-23T04:25:55Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > That’s my point. Why exterminate the people when you can alter their culture? Why alter their culture? If they want it altered they will do so themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/116 "2004-08-23T04:33:23Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Why alter their culture? If they want it altered they will do so themselves. I bet the girl wanted her culture changed. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/117 "2004-08-23T04:37:05Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Why alter their culture? If they want it altered they will do so themselves. Sometimes, they don’t want their culture altered. The confederate states certainly didn’t, and so the union had to alter it for them. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/118 "2004-08-23T04:37:21Z")
I bet she wanted the judge changed too. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/119 "2004-08-23T10:24:26Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > _In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up. -Martin Niemoeller_ A nitpick that’s not relevant to this thread, but this board is supposed to be about fighting ignorance [if the following needs replies we should open a new thread]: The original quote by Martin Niemöller had 1. Communists 2. Social Democrats 3. trade unionists 4. possibly (sources differ) Jews 5. or 5) himself which reflected the pattern up to the time when Niemöller was imprisoned in 1937. There are a lot of other versions out there that have been changed to reflect people’s agendas (such as those Christians who prefer to imagine Nazism persecuted Christianity as such rather than the minority of Christians who opposed the regime). No offense intended, **danceswithcats** , you read the text at one of those sources. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/120 "2004-08-23T10:53:39Z")
Originally posted by **tomndebb** > [@](#): > > _(BTW, I am neither a liberal nor a Democrat.)_ No. I bèt you’re not. [and I bet Debb is a figment of your imagination. Or maybe your dog. …Oh no. That can’t be it. Dogs are unclean, right? You and **calm kiwi** : Go wash your mouth, keyboard and brain with soap. What kind of idiocy are you blabbing now? The web is _full_ of articles about women being executed by sharia laws. **calm kiwi** , I’m sure you must feel nicely superiour and super PC in your death-penalty free country. Guess what? I’m against DP as well, [and we have no DP either] but I can see a difference at at least _trying_ to get the guilty person convicted and the atrocity of killing a woman because a judge got talked back to and felt he had to keep up his ‘honor’ [I’m so \*sick\* of this word] And you want the innocents to fight and overthrow their own government, huh. How naïve. some more: [http://www.secularislam.org/women/honor.htm](http://www.secularislam.org/women/honor.htm) Cases of rape is also described where women are punished even when they are the victims of rape, not only by strangers, but also by their own fathers and brothers. In the case documented in this film, the family believed that Kefaya, their daughter, the victim, who was raped by her own brother, deserved to die, because of the intense humiliation they experienced as a result of neighbors’ gossip [http://www.steinigung.org/artikel/sharia\_adultery\_rape.htm](http://www.steinigung.org/artikel/sharia_adultery_rape.htm) In the West, too, until a couple of years ago, a rape victim had difficulties to assert herself in court. As in: She must have provoked it with her behaviour. Here, too, there are contentious issues concerning the burden of proof and the rule of presumed innocence to the disadvantage of the victim. However, this does not lead to the death penalty for the women. And even, if one believes that s/he has the right to judge over the morality of someone else, the type of punishment, i.e. death by stoning, remains absolutely unacceptable. Regardless of the fact that it should be the rapist who should be punished in the first place, and not vice versa. [http://www.angelfire.com/stars/dorina/dpasiamiddleeast.html](http://www.angelfire.com/stars/dorina/dpasiamiddleeast.html) [http://www2.amnesty.se/uaonnet.nsf/0/F9A11ED2230D093AC1256EE5002DFBC6?opendocument](http://www2.amnesty.se/uaonnet.nsf/0/F9A11ED2230D093AC1256EE5002DFBC6?opendocument) [http://news.iran-emrooz.de/more.php?id=532\_0\_7\_0\_M](http://news.iran-emrooz.de/more.php?id=532_0_7_0_M) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944.md?page=7)