# 16 year old girl hanged because she had a 'sharp tongue' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 22, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944 "2004-08-22T05:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/121 "2004-08-23T11:25:14Z")
Thank you for the hygiene lesson. I shall scrub throughly. Things change because of internal pressure. Today was a big day in protesting about beliefs in NZ. One loud group opposing civil unions, one loud group pro civil unions, on the steps of parliment. This is the way things change. People in the country affected by the laws in their country making a noise. Unless you plan on “liberating” another country, you should allow them to decide when enough is enough for THEM. I never even vaguely suggested I approved with the situation from the OP. Actually the opposite would be true. It is a revolting case. I did realise it is not my place to agree or disagre with it though. Ok that is not entirely right. I can make noise about how wrong it is. Hopefully that noise lends support to those seeking to change the situation from the inside. I know I wish them the very best in changing the situation. I also know I don’t want to “help” them. Such “help” is probably as condescending as your post was. The “let’s alter or eliminate their culture because it is Bad and Wrong”, statements don’t sit well with me. Of course it is hard to make change from the inside, but it is the only way it can successfully happen. Lastly, I don’t feel superior or super PC. I expressed my opinion, much the same as anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![blackhobyah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blackhobyah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blackhobyah)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/122 "2004-08-23T11:32:15Z")
What kind of idiocy are you blabbing now? The web is _full_ of articles about women being executed by sharia laws. I think the point is not a particular set of laws, but the sad fact that under many regimes, religious or otherwise, no matter who else they come for, they come for the women first. In China they kill girl babies, in India they burn young wives, it’s not really about laws, it’s about a lack of respect for women as human beings by male dominated cultures. From what I know of the Koran, it allows women many rights and protections which are not accorded them under the existing laws of various Islamic countries. Does this mean that Islam as a religion is at fault, or the particularly patriarchal expression of that religion? Many Christian demoninations have as little respect for women, the expression of that dislike is held in check by secular laws and government. I have no faith at all, that should some terrible accident occur and Christian fundamentalists of whatever flavour suddenly got to run things, that women would not be treated as badly. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/123 "2004-08-23T11:36:38Z")
> [@gum](#): > > The web is full of articles about women being executed by sharia laws. The web is certainly full of stories about women being doubly abused, first by rapists and then by their families. It happens in Hindu India, several nominally Christian countries, and several other places around the world. (You, yourself, note that it has happened in the U.S. fairly recently.) However, at this time, when it happens in a Muslim country, a number of people (apparently including you) mindlessly chant “Islam did it.” (This is similar to the issue of female circumcision which occurs in Muslim, Christian, and Animist locations, based on _local_ custom, which also draws cries of “Islam does it.” It is barbaric and should be stopped, but it is not a _Muslim_ practice.) On a site dedicated to opposing ignorance, you are fighting on the wrong side. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/124 "2004-08-23T11:41:04Z")
From now on I should shut up. **tomndebb** say what I want to say…if I had his brains. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/125 "2004-08-23T12:25:59Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The web is certainly full of stories about women being doubly abused, first by rapists and then by their families. It happens in Hindu India, several nominally Christian countries, and several other places around the world. (You, yourself, note that it has happened in the U.S. fairly recently.) However, at this time, when it happens in a Muslim country, a number of people (apparently including you) mindlessly chant “Islam did it.” > (This is similar to the issue of female circumcision which occurs in Muslim, Christian, and Animist locations, based on _local_ custom, which also draws cries of “Islam does it.” It is barbaric and should be stopped, but it is not a _Muslim_ practice.) > > On a site dedicated to opposing ignorance, you are fighting on the wrong side. Gah! Not that discussion again! Who are you to decide what is Islam and what isn’t? If the judge says he strangled the girl in accordance with Islam or following laws prescribed by Islam and felt it his pious obligation to kill her, that’s his faith and you can’t just come and say his beliefs are false, void and null because they don’t match whatever kind of interpretation of Islam you happened to subscribe to. Fighting ignorance is more than doggedly insisting on a dogmatic approach to religious beliefs – especially when such are in direct opposition to nearly all recorded instances in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/126 "2004-08-23T13:12:44Z")
> [@](#): > > [Proposition #33](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=271672): There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures. **Debaser** picks _strongly disagree_. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/127 "2004-08-23T15:20:51Z")
Iran is not New Zealand, or England, or the USA. If people demonstrated against the leaders in Iran, they might never be seen again. OK, you had demonstrations in new Zealand. But your country does not have a “high holy court answerable to no one”, you still have scruples and laws. The leaders in Iran are drunk with power, and no demonstration or protest will do it. They will never step down willingly, and will never make any change that might reduce their own power. The only way to get rid of tyrants is to **KILL** them. Since they probably have various hangers on, security guys, police, inqusitors etc around them all the time, you can forget the simple shooting. The only way to remove them will be all-out WAR. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/128 "2004-08-23T19:31:35Z")
**calm kiwi** > [@](#): > > _Unless you plan on “liberating” another country, you should allow them to decide when enough is enough for THEM_ WTF? 1) I’m not liberating any country, thankyouverymuch. 2) They may be already deciding it’s enough, but there’s very little they can do about it, huh. YOU shouldn’t try to gloze over the fact that a young woman was sentenced to death because she was raped and talked back to a judge. **tomndebb** > [@](#): > > \*(You, yourself, note that it has happened in the U.S. fairly recently.) \* No. I never said the U.S. send girls to the electric chair because some asshole raped her and another asshole thought she had a big mouth. And where did I said the Islam did it? I was talking about sharia law. > [@](#): > > - > > On a site dedicated to opposing ignorance, you are fighting on the wrong side\* On a site dedicated to fight ignorance you’re doing a damn good job of condoning atrocities and thereby making people averse to the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Warrior\_Slashclaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e79b87/32.png) [@Warrior\_Slashclaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Warrior_Slashclaw)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/129 "2004-08-23T22:28:47Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Unless you plan on “liberating” another country, you should allow them to decide when enough is enough for THEM. > [@calm kiwi](#): > > I can make noise about how wrong it is. Hopefully that noise lends support to those seeking to change the situation from the inside. I know I wish them the very best in changing the situation. I also know I don’t want to “help” them. Such “help” is probably as condescending as your post was. > > The “let’s alter or eliminate their culture because it is Bad and Wrong”, statements don’t sit well with me. > > Of course it is hard to make change from the inside, but it is the only way it can successfully happen. **calm kiwi** , when human beings decided that the wholesale slaughter of jews by Nazis was wrong and evil, did they sit back and make “a big enough noise” (very loud quacking? did they honk?) that the Nazis thought, 'Oh gee whiz, the rest of the world doesnt approve of us killing jews. I never knew that until now… its a good thing they told us! Hey guys, lets stop and put down all our weapons and killing machines and abandon our culture of hatred and genocide." Did the forceful alteration of that culture “not sit right” with you? You say that we should let people decide when enough is enough for them. If someone big and strong is beating up on a little kid, do you intervene or decide to wait until the kid has had “enough” and decides to fight back? Do you consider that even if the child does fight back, he or she may be too weak to win? Do you think that the oppressed people in a regime are oppressed simply because they havent gotten fed up enough with it to fight back, or is it rather that they are kept in a position of weakness by the people opressing them? If someone is harming another person they rarely take steps out of their way to make sure the fight is fair. I disagree with your statement that change can only happen from the inside. Sometimes a group that is being oppressed, murdered and taken advantage of is too small and too weak to rise up and protect themselves, and in order for the injustice to stop, someone else has to step in. I dont claim to know what to do that can make this better. Nor do I claim that military action in this case is the only thing that will solve it, or anything like that. I only think that “wishing them the very best in this situation” is about as useful as not doing anything at all. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/130 "2004-08-23T22:40:45Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Who are you to decide what is Islam and what isn’t? If the judge says he strangled the girl in accordance with Islam or following laws prescribed by Islam and felt it his pious obligation to kill her, that’s his faith and you can’t just come and say his beliefs are false, void and null because they don’t match whatever kind of interpretation of Islam you happened to subscribe to. And yet you get to pick and choose what Islam really is based on your own hatreds and prejudices? I have made no claim to what “Islam is.” I have noted that the judge violated the rules of his own country and religion. These are statements included without contradiction in the story as it has been presented. He had to violate the due process that does exist (however poorly) in Iran and lie about the facts to the higher court. If this was all in accord with Islam, why would he need to violate the rules and lie? Unless you have a list of the thousands of women executed each year for violating rules against chastity in Turkey, Libya, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Algeria, Malaysia, Indonesia, and quite a few other countries, making a claim that the judge’s actions represent “Islam” would appear to be simply wishful thinking on your part. . > [@gum](#): > > I never said the U.S. send girls to the electric chair because some asshole raped her and another asshole thought she had a big mouth. Of course not, nor have I claimed that you did. I noted that many women in many parts of the world suffer the double insult of rape and oppression for having been raped and that you have confirmed that point even for the U.S. I made no claim that women in the U.S. were executed, so that strawman is not applicable. > [@gum](#): > > you’re doing a damn good job of condoning atrocities Since I have not condoned the action under question, you are either suffering from a serious lack of reading comprehension or honesty. The actions of the judge were horrific. The environment in Iran that allows him to get away with those actions is horrific. Extrapolating that his actions are _representative_ of Islam is not supported by evidence from the myriad Muslim societies around the world. Reviewing these phrases of yours > [@gum](#): > > because some asshole raped her > . . . > sentenced to death because she was raped that have already been demonstrated to be false, confirms that you suffer a defict in either your reading skills or honesty. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/131 "2004-08-23T22:42:02Z")
> [@Warrior Slashclaw](#): > > **calm kiwi** , when human beings decided that the wholesale slaughter of jews by Nazis was wrong and evil, I’m not sure that’s how it happened. The Brits fought over Poland, the French lost and handed their Jewish citizens over to the Nazis, and the US Congress declared war on Japan, which resulted in Hitler declaring war on the US. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/132 "2004-08-23T22:42:13Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Oh, piffle. Piffle, that’s simply ripping. I’ll see your piffle and raise you by a pish-tosh. > [@](#): > > This event has been used by several posters to launch the stereotypical “evil culture” of Islam schtick despite the evidence that this was a horrific act by one out-of-control local official. Claims have been treated as fact that the girl was being tried for having been raped and that she was sentenced to death for having sex and the arguments based on those claims have continued despite the fact that evidence has been presented that the one claim is purely false conjecture and the other is probably incorrect. I haven’t seen a lot of attacks on Islam in general. Most attacks have been on the mullahs in Iran, Islamic FUNDAMENTALISM and on sharia law. Wanna defend 'em, fine, but you’re going to find yourself with a severe shortage of legs to stand on. Claims to contrary notwithstanding, Islamic fundamentalists make our American fundies look like the soul of sweetness and reason. > [@](#): > > I fully condemn the actions of the judge. However, I also note that, according to the stories, themselves, the judge acted in violation of the law of Iran (trial with no defense attorney and fraudulent claim of the girl’s age). I see no reason why we should set this extra-legal travesty of justice up as an example of Iranian or Islamic law to condemn that culture unless we are also willing to point out cases where malice or incompetence leading to the execution or imprisonment of the innocent should condemn our entire society and culture. How many times have WE stoned women to death for adultery? Care to guess? Anyone? Beuhler? Anyone? Anyone? Care to guess how often they’ve done it in Iran? 15 times, [according to this report](http://www.isis.aust.com/win/iran.htm). In 2002 they finally stopped the bloody practice, but it’s nice that death by prolonged hanging is still around to give the mullahs their jollies. > [@](#): > > The actions of the judge are unconscionable. > There is not yet evidence that the actions of the judge represent the will of the people of Iran, (or even of the mullahs, given the purjured evidence that the judge appears to have submitted to them–and I _have_ condemned the mullahs on previous occasions, although I did not confuse them with Islam any more than I have confused Pat Roberston or Ian Paisely with Christianity or Meir Kohane with Judaism). Care to bet he doesn’t represent the will of SOME of the people of Iran? I’ll bet a LOT of Iranians supported him. BTW, are you someone who automatically knows what “the will of the people” is? Must be great. > [@](#): > > (It should also be noted that there are, at the moment, only two stories (repeated in several places) about this incident in English on the internet. Each has its source in an opposition group to the government of Iran. The less nuanced story is being gleefully repeated on several “Christian” sites. We have, as yet, nothing resembling a third-party verification that the event actually happened or that it happened in the way that it has been presented to us.) I’m all for better information. If you come across a better cite, sing out. > [@](#): > > (BTW, I am neither a liberal nor a Democrat.) That’s nice to know. Hear that, everybody? TomnDebb is not a liberal or a Democrat! Staunch liberal Democrats like ME have no problem condeming this sort of shit, and the cultures that produce it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/133 "2004-08-23T23:29:47Z")
> [@](#): > > I haven’t seen a lot of attacks on Islam in general. Most attacks have been on the mullahs in Iran, Islamic FUNDAMENTALISM and on sharia law. We seem to be reading different threads. I have not seen anyone differentiate between the mullahs or fundamentalist Islam and Islam in general. I am also unclear how an attack on _Shari’a_ is not an attack on Islam. The language used throughout has been pretty vague, so perhaps different passages caught each of our attention. Talk about extirpating an entire culture does not lend itself to an appreciation for surgical distinctions between Islam and the Wahhabist movement. I note that the following statements do not seem to be limited to Fundamentalist Muslims or the Iranian mullahs: > [@](#): > > The culture of Islamic fascism should be wiped out! In Iran as it should everywhere. But saying the Islamic fascism currently riding Iran like a mare is equivalent to the whole of Iranian culture is insulting to say the least. Persia has a long and proud tradition of cultured enlightenment and restraint. The Islamic fuckheads currently in power is an abnormality that should be cut out like a lump of cancer. I suppose that, in retrospect, “Islamic fascism” could be _defined_ as Fundamentalist Islam, but no such distinction had been made in the post. On the other hand, you accused me of excusing the actions of _another country_ when I specifically was pointing out that they were the actions of a _single individual_ who had to break his own laws to carry out his wishes. Given the lack of corroboration, thus far, it will be interesting to see vcarious reactions if it turns out that the story was actually fabricated by the Iranian opposition. I am not expecting that–the mullahs have a lot of blood on their hands–but it would still be interesting to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Warrior\_Slashclaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e79b87/32.png) [@Warrior\_Slashclaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Warrior_Slashclaw)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/134 "2004-08-23T23:30:29Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I’m not sure that’s how it happened. > The Brits fought over Poland, the French lost and handed their Jewish citizens over to the Nazis, and the US Congress declared war on Japan, which resulted in Hitler declaring war on the US. Point taken, I was oversimplifying it by a lot. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/135 "2004-08-23T23:36:12Z")
> [@Warrior Slashclaw](#): > > Point taken, I was oversimplifying it by a lot. [Grabs chest] Somebody _agrees with me_ in the pit? It’s a plot I should have a heart attack! Thanks 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TWOTfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@TWOTfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWOTfan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/136 "2004-08-24T01:41:23Z")
[http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=80256DD400782B8480256EF9005CC228](http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=80256DD400782B8480256EF9005CC228) It seems the Liberals at Amnesty International don’t believe in Moral Relativism. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/137 "2004-08-24T02:20:06Z")
Amnesty International is a nice start, but if that’s all there is, it won’t matter much. After re-reading one of the articles yet again, it looks to me like the girl was going to hang no matter what she said or didn’t say. She had no lawyer, and apparently could not get one. The judge tore into her about her clothing and appearance. He was already going to convict her for some moral corruptions nonsense. Then after all his bullshit, she must have objected and so was strung up for having a sharp tongue. It even went so far as lying about her age (22 instead of 16), so it would be “legal” to hang her. Just what they need, a group of self appointed gods, who do anything they please. Sorry, but they hung the wrong person. They should have lynched the judge. Evidently this sort of thing happens a lot. I wonder when someone there with any sense will say ENOUGH and starts hanging these judges. In public, by slow strangulation - no easy neck snap. That would be justice. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/138 "2004-08-24T03:00:38Z")
> [@tschild](#): > > A nitpick that’s not relevant to this thread, but this board is supposed to be about fighting ignorance [if the following needs replies we should open a new thread]: > > The original quote by Martin Niemöller had > > 1. Communists > 2. Social Democrats > 3. trade unionists > 4. possibly (sources differ) Jews > 5. or 5) himself > > which reflected the pattern up to the time when Niemöller was imprisoned in 1937. There are a lot of other versions out there that have been changed to reflect people’s agendas (such as those Christians who prefer to imagine Nazism persecuted Christianity as such rather than the minority of Christians who opposed the regime). No offense intended, **danceswithcats** , you read the text at one of those sources. I considered the 16th Edition of Bartlett’s Familiar Quotations to carry sufficient authority as a reference. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/139 "2004-08-24T05:00:55Z")
**tomndebb** Now why do I get the feeling the dishonesty lies on _your_ side? Yes, I have problems with religions. Including islam. I never pretended to otherwise. You, on the other hand, try to condone the most horrible things done in the name of allah - [or whatever fucking god handy] - only to post later that, indeed, the actions of that judge were horrific…BUT… > [@](#): > > _Extrapolating that his actions are representative of Islam is not supported by evidence from the myriad Muslim societies around the world._ No, it’s not. But you’re doing a grand job to convince us that it is. Who are you? Ibrahim Hooper? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944/140 "2004-08-24T05:53:01Z")
**Gum** — are you reading the same thread I am? Because as an impartial observer, it seems to me that **tomndebb** is one of the few posters here arguing honestly, disinterestedly, and lucidly. I see no intellectual dishonesty in his words. I see no place that tomndebb is condoning the actions of the judge. Are we reading the same thread, here, mate? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-girl-hanged-because-she-had-a-sharp-tongue/260944.md?page=8)