# 16-year old Iraqi solves Bernouilli numbers **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 30, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155 "2009-05-30T13:06:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/1 "2009-05-30T13:06:17Z")
[It took him four months](http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090528/od_afp/swedeneducationoffbeatiraq_20090528124335) to come up with a formula to explain and simplify the [Bernouilli numbers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernouilli_numbers). I predict this kid will with the Nobel prize one day. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/2 "2009-05-30T13:33:04Z")
Follow the links on the story. The equations he discovered had been known before: [http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090528/wl\_mideast\_afp/swedeneducationoffbeatreply\_20090528174251](http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090528/wl_mideast_afp/swedeneducationoffbeatreply_20090528174251) News stories like this are nearly always exaggerations. Yes, he’s pretty smart, but there are a lot of pretty smart people out there. Look, I’ve spent my whole adult life with mathematicians. There isn’t any shortage of first-rate mathematicians. News stories that make it sound like brilliant mathematicians are so rare that every time a bright teenager makes a interesting (but hardly world-shattering) discovery (which wasn’t original anyway) we should hail him as our new mathematical savior are merely a waste of newspaper print (or bandwidth). ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/3 "2009-05-30T13:41:40Z")
Unless a mathematician can explain their ideas in good old-fashioned words, they may as well be speaking in Klingonese as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/4 "2009-05-30T13:43:47Z")
In that case, ivan astikov, I would suggest that you not get a job as a science journalist so that you wouldn’t be tempted to write a news story as bad as the one in the link in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/5 "2009-05-30T16:46:53Z")
Even if it’s not an original discovery, the kid’s got talent. Let’s hope he can do something with it. > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Unless a mathematician can explain their ideas in good old-fashioned words, they may as well be speaking in Klingonese as far as I’m concerned. I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say here. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/6 "2009-05-30T16:49:52Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Even if it’s not an original discovery, the kid’s got talent. Let’s hope he can do something with it. > > I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say here. Every equation must be explainable in story form, preferably in terms of apples, oranges, and trains leaving the station at certain times. And none of that acceleration crap either! I hope the kid’s math talents extend to figuring out how far away to stay from abandoned cars, to avoid the blast damage. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/7 "2009-05-30T18:29:09Z")
Boyo Jim, did you bother to read the news story in the link? He’s an Iraqi immigrant to Sweden. I don’t think there have been a lot of bombings in Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/8 "2009-05-30T18:45:04Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Unless a mathematician can explain their ideas in good old-fashioned words, they may as well be speaking in Klingonese as far as I’m concerned. They could probably explain it in Kingon, too. But seriously, what do you mean? Equations are “words” in the sense they mean something. Just because you can’t “speak the language,” doesn’t mean it’s not important. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/9 "2009-05-30T19:05:32Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Unless a mathematician can explain their ideas in good old-fashioned words, they may as well be speaking in Klingonese as far as I’m concerned. > > > [@cmyk](#): > > > > They could probably explain it in Kingon, too. > > > > But seriously, what do you mean? Equations are “words” in the sense they mean something. Just because you can’t “speak the language,” doesn’t mean it’s not important. He’s looking for a translation. Without knowing the math, the equations are meaningless. The news article basically says, ‘There are these numbers, eh? And a 16-year-old came up with a formula to solve them.’ So one might say, ‘Interesting. What are these numbers?’ And a mathematician says, ‘Oh, they’re hjürdi-gjürdi hoompty doompty. Woof!’ ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/10 "2009-05-30T19:18:25Z")
Click on the Wikipedia article on Bernoulli numbers that’s linked to in the OP. That’s about a simple an explanation as you’re going to get, it appears. Does anyone have a link to a simpler explanation of what they are? Furthermore, click on the tab at the top of the Wikipedia page for the Discussion page on Bernoulli numbers. There is a discussion (at the bottom of the page) about whether there is anything interesting in the 16-year-old’s rediscovery of a method of generating the Bernoulii numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/11 "2009-05-30T19:48:02Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Unless a mathematician can explain their ideas in good old-fashioned words, they may as well be speaking in Klingonese as far as I’m concerned. This sentiment is vaguely disturbing, as it sounds exactly like something Glenn Beck would say. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/12 "2009-05-30T20:02:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > So one might say, ‘Interesting. What are these numbers?’ And a mathematician says, ‘Oh, they’re hjürdi-gjürdi hoompty doompty. Woof!’ “…Bork bork bork?” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/13 "2009-05-30T20:21:06Z")
The whole idea is, “it makes good copy.” Poor Iraqi boy knows math. Iraq is not a useless country there are people who know stuff. Of course all the people that know stuff, leave 🙂 Basically it’s good copy that reminds everyone Arabs, Muslims and Iraqis aren’t any different, and not all are poor and hopeless and out of the ravages of war born is genius. ---
**Author:** ![Convict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Convict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Convict)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/14 "2009-05-30T20:49:22Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Click on the Wikipedia article on Bernoulli numbers that’s linked to in the OP. That’s about a simple an explanation as you’re going to get, it appears. When people ask why I majored in history I will give them that link. As **Johnny L.A.** pointed out, without the math those equations have no meaning. So let me ask this–what real world application do Bernouilli numbers have? Did they offer a solution to a problem that resulted in a great scientific or technological advance? Or are they simply something that math folks use to show how smart they are? My brain is not wired for math so any help would be appreciated. (And if any of my questions could be answered by looking at the wiki page I apologize–all those equations shorted out my brain.) ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/15 "2009-05-30T23:17:14Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > I don’t think there have been a lot of bombings in Sweden. That’s probably a great comfort to [Olof Palme.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Palme_assassination) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/16 "2009-05-30T23:30:15Z")
What does that have to do with anything? Olof Palme died from a gunshot, not a bombing, and I never said that there were no bombings, just that there weren’t a lot of them. My post was in reply to Boyo Jim, who didn’t notice that the kid lives in Sweden, not Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolas\_Bourbaki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecc23a/32.png) [@Nicolas\_Bourbaki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicolas_Bourbaki)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/17 "2009-05-30T23:43:30Z")
> [@Convict](#): > > As **Johnny L.A.** pointed out, without the math those equations have no meaning. So let me ask this–what real world application do Bernouilli numbers have? Did they offer a solution to a problem that resulted in a great scientific or technological advance? Or are they simply something that math folks use to show how smart they are? Why can’t they do both? ETA: They’ve printed a [retraction](http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090528/od_afp/swedeneducationoffbeatreply_20090528174259). He _did_ find an algorithm, but it had been discovered before, and he is _not_ getting early admission to the University of Uppsala. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/18 "2009-05-30T23:57:39Z")
> [@Convict](#): > > When people ask why I majored in history I will give them that link. > > As **Johnny L.A.** pointed out, without the math those equations have no meaning. So let me ask this–what real world application do Bernouilli numbers have? Did they offer a solution to a problem that resulted in a great scientific or technological advance? Or are they simply something that math folks use to show how smart they are? There is no area of math that does not apply to some problem people face. Prime numbers used to be thought of as the most ivory-tower discipline ever; after all, what use could they possibly be? Enter cryptography. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/19 "2009-05-31T00:03:38Z")
Nicolas Bourbaki, note that that’s the same article that I linked to in post #2, although it’s on a slightly different webpage. ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Keen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Commander\_Keen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commander_Keen)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155/20 "2009-05-31T00:09:32Z")
> [@Convict](#): > > So let me ask this–what real world application do Bernouilli numbers have? Did they offer a solution to a problem that resulted in a great scientific or technological advance? Or are they simply something that math folks use to show how smart they are? Yeah, it’s not like anyone would ever find pure math interesting, or study it for its own sake. If you’re not building rockets or curing cancer, then you’re just showing off, right? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-year-old-iraqi-solves-bernouilli-numbers/498155.md?page=2)