# 18,000 Palestinians are starving. Will Europe explode in protest? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2014, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094 "2014-08-08T05:39:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/181 "2014-08-11T21:17:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, I don’t agree. You know why? Because when there are “Death to the Jews” slogans next to those people with “principled stands”, the WHOLE protest is just pissing in the wind. I suspect a lot of causes you support are also favoured by people who hate blacks, gays, Muslims and even Jews. How would that affect your own stances? Does it invalidate your criticisms? > [@Terr](#): > > You think it’s “some”. I think it’s “most”. Your evidence supports “some”. It doesn’t support “most”. In fact, it seems to suggest “most” is a gross exaggeration. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/182 "2014-08-11T21:17:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You think it’s “some”. I think it’s “most”. Is it just 51% or closer to 99? Also, you’re a crazy person. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/183 "2014-08-11T21:18:36Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I suspect a lot of causes you support are also favoured by people who hate blacks, gays, Muslims and even Jews. How would that affect your own stances? Does it invalidate your criticisms? Once again, in this thread I am not talking about “causes”. I am talking about mass protests. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/184 "2014-08-11T21:18:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Ah–I thought you were suggesting someone in this thread was making such a claim. Yes, Ergodan and his ilk? Morons. Don’t dismiss what you don’t like as “they’re just morons.” There are increasing numbers of anti-Jewish protests going on all over Europe with increasing frequency and the apologists say “well, you know. Kids will be kids. They’ll just pick a group and lob bombs and their places of worship. Don’t read too much into it.” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/185 "2014-08-11T21:19:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. I also agree that there are shitloads of people who are anti-semitic who participate in those same protests, hiding their anti-semitism under “principled stands”, and that a person who professes such a stand can’t be assumed not to be anti-semitic. Do you agree? > > No, I don’t agree. You know why? Because when there are “Death to the Jews” slogans next to those people with “principled stands”, the WHOLE protest is just pissing in the wind. A wolf in sheep’s clothing is still a wolf and will be found out as such. It’s not that hard. What you’re suggesting is that the entire herd is nothing but wolves. That simply is not the case and you have no evidence to support such a claim anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/186 "2014-08-11T21:21:02Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > A wolf in sheep’s clothing is still a wolf and will be found out as such. It’s not that hard. What you’re suggesting is that the entire herd is nothing but wolves. That simply is not the case and you have no evidence to support such a claim anyway. No, what I am suggesting is that the herd is mostly wolves. Yes, the rest are sheep. And you have no evidence to deny that claim anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/187 "2014-08-11T21:22:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, what I am suggesting is that the herd is mostly wolves. Yes, the rest are sheep. And you have no evidence to deny that claim anyway. You have no evidence to make it. So what now? ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/188 "2014-08-11T21:25:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Once again, in this thread I am not talking about “causes”. I am talking about mass protests. So, apologies if you’ve said this and I missed it, but what is the point? What difference does it make if it’s a protest, rather than a cause that’s not backed up by a protest? What if you _were_ protesting (say about the death of Jews at the hands of Arabs) and some of your fellow protesters appeared to be saying anti-Arab things? What would you do? What inferences could I draw about the protest as a whole? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/189 "2014-08-11T21:34:28Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > So, apologies if you’ve said this and I missed it, but what is the point? What difference does it make if it’s a protest, rather than a cause that’s not backed up by a protest? What if you _were_ protesting (say about the death of Jews at the hands of Arabs) and some of your fellow protesters appeared to be saying anti-Arab things? What would you do? What inferences could I draw about the protest as a whole? That protest would be “pissing in the wind”. In fact, any protest against Hamas/ISIS/Syria etc. barbarity is “pissing in the wind”. But so is any protest against Israel. Because, trust me, Israelis are not fooled by the so-called “principled stands”. And Israeli policy makers are not stupid people. They know what motivates most such protesters. And they ignore the protests. Have ignored them for close to 60 years and will ignore them in the future as well. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/190 "2014-08-11T21:37:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, what I am suggesting is that the herd is mostly wolves. Yes, the rest are sheep. And you have no evidence to deny that claim anyway. Whatever protest you are using as your example is most assuredly a tiny fraction of the population in which it’s being held. So even if every single one is an anti-semite, they are still a tiny minority of society. What if you’re right though? Go ahead and raise the alarm. Cry “wolves!” You think the villagers will be sympathetic? According to you, most of them are wolves as well. Now, what are you prepared to do, up to your ass in wolves? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/191 "2014-08-11T21:41:05Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You think the villagers will be sympathetic? According to you, most of them are wolves as well. Can you cite any one of my posts that would lead you to think that this is “according to me”? ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/192 "2014-08-11T21:46:53Z")
I would be surprised if, among people who are neither Jewish nor Muslim, most people who are truly anti-Semitic are not be anti-Muslim as well. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/193 "2014-08-11T22:04:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > But so is any protest against Israel. Because, trust me, Israelis are not fooled by the so-called “principled stands”. And Israeli policy makers are not stupid people. They know what motivates most such protesters. And they ignore the protests. Have ignored them for close to 60 years and will ignore them in the future as well. So these protests against Israel are ignored by everyone in Israel. What are you, their surrogate kvetch? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/194 "2014-08-11T22:27:51Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > So these protests against Israel are ignored by everyone in Israel. What are you, their surrogate kvetch? Do you really think they’re being ignored by everyone in Israel? True, anti-Jewish shit goes on and on over the years and you can ignore some of it, but sometimes you need to start paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/195 "2014-08-11T23:10:01Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Do you really think they’re being ignored by everyone in Israel? True, anti-Jewish shit goes on and on over the years and you can ignore some of it, but sometimes you need to start paying attention. They are ignored as protests. Especially by Israeli policy makers, but by most of Israeli public as well. They are noted as expressions of anti-semitism, definitely. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/196 "2014-08-11T23:25:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They are ignored as protests. Especially by Israeli policy makers, but by most of Israeli public as well. They are noted as expressions of anti-semitism, definitely. How convenient that all their critics are so instantly dismissible. It’s kind of like the way everyone who disagrees with me is an arsehole, so when they tell me I’m wrong, I know it’s actually proof I’m right. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/197 "2014-08-11T23:57:51Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Don’t dismiss what you don’t like as “they’re just morons.” No worries: the word “just” is your own addition to my quote. Someone can be a moron without being dismissed. > [@Terr](#): > > Yes. I also agree that there are shitloads of people who are anti-semitic who participate in those same protests, hiding their anti-semitism under “principled stands”, and that a person who professes such a stand can’t be assumed not to be anti-semitic. Do you agree? I don’t know about “shitloads”. I know about isolated anecdotes. I mentioned “shitloads” of people taking principled stands because the default assumption is that people should be taken at their word, and shitload of people have made principled arguments against Israel, and I take them at their word. > [@](#): > > No, I don’t agree. You know why? Because when there are “Death to the Jews” slogans next to those people with “principled stands”, the WHOLE protest is just pissing in the wind. I hope you’re entirely clear on your argument here. You’re saying that someone can “think protesting Israel isn’t just pissing in the wind,” but because you disagree with them and think it is, that person is necessarily antisemitic. Seriously, reread what you wrote–that’s what you said. Is that what you meant to say? If you disagree with the effect of a principled stand, that person must be lying–there’s no room for honest disagreement? > [@Terr](#): > > They are ignored as protests. Especially by Israeli policy makers, but by most of Israeli public as well. They are noted as expressions of anti-semitism, definitely. Once more, with feeling: THE PROTESTS AREN’T AIMED AT ISRAEL. They’re aimed at the government of the protestor’s own country, hoping to persuade that government to pressure Israel. Is it your contention that Israel alone among democracies is immune to pressure from its allies? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/198 "2014-08-12T00:02:44Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I hope you’re entirely clear on your argument here. You’re saying that someone can “think protesting Israel isn’t just pissing in the wind,” but because you disagree with them and think it is, that person is necessarily antisemitic. Seriously, reread what you wrote–that’s what you said. Is that what you meant to say? If you disagree with the effect of a principled stand, that person must be lying–there’s no room for honest disagreement? Seriously, read what I said - apparently you have problem with comprehension. I will repeat it, in case you missed it the first time: “Because when there are “Death to the Jews” slogans next to those people with “principled stands”, the WHOLE protest is just pissing in the wind.” Where does this say that disagreeing with someone means the person is an anti-semite? This is about as bizarre a conclusion as you can reach reading what I said. > [@](#): > > Once more, with feeling: THE PROTESTS AREN’T AIMED AT ISRAEL. They’re aimed at the government of the protestor’s own country, hoping to persuade that government to pressure Israel. Is it your contention that Israel alone among democracies is immune to pressure from its allies? I already pointed out that no European country is an “ally” of Israel’s. And US government does not pay any attention to the protests either when they include anti-semites of all kinds. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/199 "2014-08-12T00:11:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Seriously, read what I said - apparently you have problem with comprehension. I will repeat it, in case you missed it the first time: > > “Because when there are “Death to the Jews” slogans next to those people with “principled stands”, the WHOLE protest is just pissing in the wind.” > > Where does this say that disagreeing with someone means the person is an anti-semite? This is about as bizarre a conclusion as you can reach reading what I said. Jeez. Go back. I asked you if someone could take a principled stand that protesting Israel but not Syria was worthwhile because THEY THINK Israel might listen, and not be an antisemite. You said no, that’s not possible, because Israel won’t listen. What did “no” mean, if you weren’t saying that such a person was necessarily antisemitic? > [@](#): > > I already pointed out that no European country is an “ally” of Israel’s. And US government does not pay any attention to the protests either when they include anti-semites of all kinds. [you repeat yourself, I’ll link to the refutations of your dumb repeated arguments](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17624420&postcount=84). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/200 "2014-08-12T00:16:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Jeez. Go back. I asked you if someone could take a principled stand that protesting Israel but not Syria was worthwhile because THEY THINK Israel might listen, and not be an antisemite. You said no, that’s not possible, because Israel won’t listen. What did “no” mean, if you weren’t saying that such a person was necessarily antisemitic? “No” meant Israel won’t listen when the protests include anti-semites of all kinds. And didn’t you just tell me “with feeling” it was NOT about Israel listening anyway? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094.md?page=11)