# 18,000 Palestinians are starving. Will Europe explode in protest? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2014, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094 "2014-08-08T05:39:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/61 "2014-08-09T16:50:56Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > **Terr** , if it looked for a second like you actually gave a shit about starving Palestinians, I might be more sympathetic. It certainly doesn’t look like any Europeans actually give a shit about starving Palestinians, either. Not a peep out of Europe about it. Not one protest, not one demonstration, nothing. Because Jews are not involved. Jews killing Palestinians - big deal. Arabs killing Palestinians - who cares. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/62 "2014-08-09T17:01:08Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > …but I can’t figure out what actual point you’re making. My point is that they caused the mess. Would there be an Israel without the Holocaust or the persecution of Jews prior to WW2? That combined with countries refusing to take refugees caused Jews to go to the ME. It would have been unlikely that the numbers of Jews in Palestine would have been enough to support a country, IMHO. So, I blame the Europeans and their prejudice for what has happened. At this point, they should shut the fuck up or fix the mess they created. As they can’t even figure out what to do about the Ukraine, I doubt the latter will ever happen. So, they should shut up about a problem that they ultimately created and others have to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/63 "2014-08-09T17:07:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Jews killing Palestinians - big deal. Arabs killing Palestinians - who cares. There is a comedy bit by Eddie Izzard on how it is somehow okay to kill your own citizens (in the millions no less) as long as you don’t cross the border to do it to someone else’s. I think it was the ‘Dressed to Kill’ video. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/64 "2014-08-09T17:17:07Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > My point is that they caused the mess. Would there be an Israel without the Holocaust or the persecution of Jews prior to WW2? That combined with countries refusing to take refugees caused Jews to go to the ME. It would have been unlikely that the numbers of Jews in Palestine would have been enough to support a country, IMHO. > > So, I blame the Europeans and their prejudice for what has happened. At this point, they should shut the fuck up or fix the mess they created. As they can’t even figure out what to do about the Ukraine, I doubt the latter will ever happen. So, they should shut up about a problem that they ultimately created and others have to deal with. Please learn how to quote properly. It isn’t difficult. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/65 "2014-08-09T17:20:51Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > My point is that they caused the mess. Would there be an Israel without the Holocaust or the persecution of Jews prior to WW2? That combined with countries refusing to take refugees caused Jews to go to the ME. It would have been unlikely that the numbers of Jews in Palestine would have been enough to support a country, IMHO. > > So, I blame the Europeans and their prejudice for what has happened. At this point, they should shut the fuck up or fix the mess they created. As they can’t even figure out what to do about the Ukraine, I doubt the latter will ever happen. So, they should shut up about a problem that they ultimately created and others have to deal with. You appear to be blaming the whole of Europe for the Holocaust. That’s a somewhat non traditional viewpoint. As a Brit born in 1974 I’d live to know how it is my fault. Go on, do tell. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/66 "2014-08-09T17:27:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It is not semantics. There is no alliance treaty between two countries. You realize, I hope, that you just made a semantic argument. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/67 "2014-08-09T17:46:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You realize, I hope, that you just made a semantic argument. No, it is not a semantic distinction, it is a real one. Treaty obligates the signatories. “Designation” doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/68 "2014-08-09T17:49:03Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > You appear to be blaming the whole of Europe for the Holocaust. Yes. They could have stopped Hitler well before the war started. > [@](#): > > That’s a somewhat non traditional viewpoint. As a Brit born in 1974 I’d live to know how it is my fault. Go on, do tell. And who controlled Palestine before Israel was created? [Mandate for Palestine - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_for_Palestine) As much your fault as anyone’s. The date of your birth doesn’t alleviate you of responsibility for your nation’s past or continued actions (or lack thereof). ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/69 "2014-08-09T18:05:26Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Because the Jews have always had a great time in Europe. The height of their popularity peaked in the 1940’s, after which their popularity waned tremendously. Disappointed at no longer being so popular, they felt the need to found their own country in the Middle East,… and well, here we are again. > > Personally, I blame the Europeans for everything that is happening in the ME. They should fix it or shut the fuck up about it. Those pesky Europeans, invading Iraq, leaving it in chaos and supplying weapons which end up in ISIS hands, right? Just like when we armed the Taliban in the 80s. It’s so embarrassing to look back on it now. Isn’t it also Europe who vetoes any attempt by the UN to investigate Israeli crimes and supplies them with $3 billion per year in military aid? And I’m pretty sure it was us who interfered repeatedly in Iran and helped make it what it is today. Or were you thinking of something else? > [@Terr](#): > > It certainly doesn’t look like any Europeans actually give a shit about starving Palestinians, either. Not a peep out of Europe about it. Not one protest, not one demonstration, nothing. Because Jews are not involved. Jews killing Palestinians - big deal. Arabs killing Palestinians - who cares. Which continent do you think the newspaper you so triumphantly linked to in your OP comes from? ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/70 "2014-08-09T18:07:19Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > As much your fault as anyone’s. The date of your birth doesn’t alleviate you of responsibility for your nation’s past or continued actions (or lack thereof). Which is your nation, by the way? Just so we can see what a virtuous history looks like. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/71 "2014-08-09T18:08:23Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Which continent do you think the newspaper you so triumphantly linked to in your OP comes from? I repeat: no demonstrations, no protests. No letter-writing campaigns. Nothing. Here it is from a Brit left-wing blog: > **[Outraged about Gaza? Fine. Now worry about Syria](https://leftfootforward.org/2014/07/outraged-about-gaza-fine-but-what-about-syria/)** > > The lack of action over the fate of Palestinians in Syria suggests the death and suffering of Palestinians is not enough to get people onto the streets. Comparing reactions to events in Gaza to the non-response to much worse events in Syria is not a case of ‘whataboutery’, because the Syrian conflict directly affect Palestinians; and in this respect the lack of solidarity is most glaring. By February 2014, over 2,000 Palestinians were reported to have died in the Syrian civil war, most of whom were killed in Palestinian refugee camps in the country. Those campaigners who talk about a siege on Gaza should look at Yarmouk refugee camp in Damascus to see what a siege actually involves. Since July 2013, Yarmouk has been cut off by Syrian government forces. Barely any food or medicine has made it in. There are no goods trucks entering Yarmouk every day as Israeli trucks do in Gaza. In March 2014, Amnesty International identified 128 people who had starved to death in Yarmouk as a result. … Then there is the grotesque situation of anti-Israel campaigners who misattribute victim photos from Syria in their haste to find gory images from Gaza to put on social media. Thus the Syrian dead are denied solidarity twice over. The enthusiasm with which some people demonstrate about Israel while having no interest in doing the same for Syria makes it hard to believe that they are motivated by an objective concern for human rights. The lack of action over the fate of Palestinians in Syria suggests that the death and suffering of Palestinians per se is not enough to get people out on the streets. It seems that if you are a Palestinian in Gaza whose safety is endangered by Israeli soldiers wielding American weapons, you are guaranteed the solidarity and support of the British anti-imperialist Left. But if you are a Palestinian (or anyone else) in Syria, under attack from Syrian government or Hizbollah troops armed by Russia and Iran, then you serve no purpose and consequently are of no interest. Those protestors in London at the weekend presumably believe they were standing up for morality and basic humanity. In fact, all their selectivity demonstrates is just how easily those values can be abused. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/72 "2014-08-09T18:09:41Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > As much your fault as anyone’s. The date of your birth doesn’t alleviate you of responsibility for your nation’s past or continued actions (or lack thereof). Like going to war for 6 years to stop Hitler? ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/73 "2014-08-09T18:10:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I repeat: no demonstrations, no protests. No letter-writing campaigns. Nothing. Then I take it you’ll be getting right on that? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/74 "2014-08-09T19:39:26Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Arguing with you was like arguing with a pre-recorded message. > [@Terr](#): > > I repeat: no demonstrations, no protests. Can you call it, or can you call it, OldOlds? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/75 "2014-08-09T19:41:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Can you call it, or can you call it, OldOlds? When the responder ignores what I wrote and instead chooses to argue a point I didn’t raise, all I can do is repeat the original point. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/76 "2014-08-09T19:49:07Z")
> [@terr](#): > > when the responder ignores what i wrote and instead chooses to argue a point i didn’t raise bwahahahaha ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/77 "2014-08-09T19:52:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > bwahahahaha Is that your idea of conversation or just you in the pit? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/78 "2014-08-09T19:54:18Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Is that your idea of conversation or just you in the pit? Some posters think that because it is the Pit that gives them freedom to behave like morons. That’s one example for you. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/79 "2014-08-09T19:59:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, it is not a semantic distinction, it is a real one. Treaty obligates the signatories. “Designation” doesn’t. Except when one party decides not to honor the treaty. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094/80 "2014-08-09T20:01:35Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Except when one party decides not to honor the treaty. The obligation still exists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-000-palestinians-are-starving-will-europe-explode-in-protest/695094.md?page=5)