# 18/15 yr old sexual relationship. Appropriate punishment? Same sex if it matters. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 21, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958 "2013-05-21T20:48:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/41 "2013-05-22T09:25:55Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > What the fuck??? I can understand not having a legal age of consent at all, but they actually went to the trouble to come up with one and SEVEN is what they came up with? I don’t care what year it was, that is insane. Ten isn’t much less insane. Especially when you consider that people were starting puberty later back then. What could these people possibly have been thinking? > > As for this case, I think it’s very borderline. Teenagers mature at such different rates that it’s so hard to draw a bold line, but legally you pretty much have to and if you did decide on a case-by-case basis it would end up being at least as unfair. I chose option 3 because it probably isn’t great and as a parent I wouldn’t be too pleased, but it probably isn’t something I think should actually be illegal. > > And one more thing, since the line we draw is arbitrary, I think we should make it very, \*very \*clear to teenagers what the laws are in their jurisdiction and what the consequences can be for breaking them. I don’t remember ever being taught that as a teenager. I’m with you on that. When I read that I was WTF? Seriously, I know kids back then tended to have to work and rarely did school past age 12 (unless the family had money) but saying a 7 year old could consent to sex is futterly Ucked. At least that’s now been corrected. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/42 "2013-05-22T10:49:17Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > _PLEASE_, nobody else vote for option #4. It’s current tally is **69** Well, that didn’t last long. You people are no fun. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/43 "2013-05-22T13:31:48Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The law of course can, and should, be “it depends on the kids”. If consent is given, the age doesn’t matter. If consent isn’t, or cannot, be given, the age _also_ doesn’t matter. The idea that a fifteen year old is unable to consent to sex is observably false - as this case demonstrates. Cesario? Is that you? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/44 "2013-05-22T13:54:52Z")
Yeah, the problem here is the parents of one of the girls are the “gays r bad” type. If it makes you guys feel any better, straight kids have vindictive asshole parents too, like in the case of that guy whose girlfriend’s parents went nuts on him because he deflowered their pwecious little girl. I think the case was exactly the same – they went to the same high school, were both minors when it all began, was completely consentual – except the kids were straight. You guys remember that story? Some kids in the South? Hard to Google because everything keeps turning up the Kaitlyn story, and I don’t remember their names or what state it occurred in. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/45 "2013-05-22T13:55:31Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > What does that mean in practice? No statutory rape laws? Is there a minimum age of consent? If there is, in fact, an age below which one cannot consent - and it can actual be demonstrated that this is the case - then any sex with someone below this age will be rape. It shouldn’t be decided by society but by science, if that’s possible. > [@muldoonthief](#): > > Cesario? Is that you? Nope. There’s a big difference between a 14 year old sleeping with a 16 year old, and someone my age (mid thirties). The latter is pretty much never acceptable, and whilst I don’t think it’s absolutely impossible for such a relationship to be consensual, it’s rare enough that making it illegal isn’t a problem. However, any laws that prevent consensual sex between teenagers, or allow parents to prevent such sex by claiming that sex is somehow a bad thing, are wrong. That you think that, because I support the right of a 15 year old girl to sleep with her girlfriend, I want to sleep with her myself, says more about you than me. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/46 "2013-05-22T14:26:52Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Well, that didn’t last long. > You people are no fun. > ☹ Most of us don’t read the thread until after we voted (I do read the OP). So your plea went to … nobody. Not to mention the whole “huh uh huh 69” thing is probably juvenile to anyone older than the girls in the story. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/47 "2013-05-22T14:28:28Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Yeah, the problem here is the parents of one of the girls are the “gays r bad” type. If it makes you guys feel any better, straight kids have vindictive asshole parents too, like in the case of that guy whose girlfriend’s parents went nuts on him because he deflowered their pwecious little girl. I think the case was exactly the same – they went to the same high school, were both minors when it all began, was completely consentual – except the kids were straight. You guys remember that story? Some kids in the South? Hard to Google because everything keeps turning up the Kaitlyn story, and I don’t remember their names or what state it occurred in. I think you’re talking about [Gennarlow Wilson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_v._State_of_Georgia), which I am sad to say came from my home state and I had to listen to all the gory details on the nightly news as my state prosecuted this travesty of justice. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/48 "2013-05-22T14:32:52Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If there is, in fact, an age below which one cannot consent - and it can actual be demonstrated that this is the case - then any sex with someone below this age will be rape. It shouldn’t be decided by society but by science, if that’s possible. > > Nope. There’s a big difference between a 14 year old sleeping with a 16 year old, and someone my age (mid thirties). The latter is pretty much never acceptable, and whilst I don’t think it’s absolutely impossible for such a relationship to be consensual, it’s rare enough that making it illegal isn’t a problem. However, any laws that prevent consensual sex between teenagers, or allow parents to prevent such sex by claiming that sex is somehow a bad thing, are wrong. > > That you think that, because I support the right of a 15 year old girl to sleep with her girlfriend, I want to sleep with her myself, says more about you than me. I was joking, but your statement of “If consent is given, the age doesn’t matter” was creepily reminiscent of Cesario’s claims that if he could talk a 5 year old into having sex with him, and she doesn’t cry or scream, then who are we to interfere? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/49 "2013-05-22T14:43:40Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > I think you’re talking about [Gennarlow Wilson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_v._State_of_Georgia), which I am sad to say came from my home state and I had to listen to all the gory details on the nightly news as my state prosecuted this travesty of justice. Yes, that’s exactly it. Thanks! Turns out the case was not exactly the same; the “rapist” was actually 17. Yeesh! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/50 "2013-05-22T15:16:44Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > I was joking, but your statement of “If consent is given, the age doesn’t matter” was creepily reminiscent of Cesario’s claims that if he could talk a 5 year old into having sex with him, and she doesn’t cry or scream, then who are we to interfere? The thing that makes sex with a five year old wrong is that it harms them, and they don’t enjoy it. I think that is clear whether or not there’s a specific cut off age. I don’t think that the sex in the case being discussed, between two teenage girls, harmed anyone (or, more importantly, anyone that actually have a say in it - the parents may argue that they were harmed, but I’d vehemently disagree), and I assume they enjoyed it. As your comment was a joke, I take back that it says more about you than me. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/51 "2013-05-22T15:21:08Z")
Yeah, I should probably know better than to compare someone to Cesario without making sure the joke is obvious. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/52 "2013-05-22T17:26:05Z")
The whole idea that is it legal for a 15 yo and an 17 yo to have sex but once one of them turns 18 they have to stop having sex is stupid. The horse has already left the barn so there is no sense in closing the door now. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/53 "2013-05-22T17:35:16Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Legal in my state. Mine too. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/54 "2013-05-23T12:48:54Z")
In this case, it’s an 18 year old charged for statutory rape of a 14 year old. May I ask, **Loach** and **Pravnik** , which states? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/55 "2013-05-23T13:18:44Z")
The actual charges are two felony counts of “Lewd and Lascivious Battery.” ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/56 "2013-05-23T14:33:07Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > In this case, it’s an 18 year old charged for statutory rape of a 14 year old. > > May I ask, **Loach** and **Pravnik** , which states? Huh… I guess I didn’t read that carefully. Going by the thread title, I thought it was less than a 3 year difference. That does take it into inappropriate territory I think. ETA: Oh, I see. The news story was updated. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/57 "2013-05-23T16:49:08Z")
Not rape - I support the age differential calculations that some states have added to their laws. I have a 17 year old turning 18 in a few weeks. We have had several conversations about how the world changes for him soon (with varying levels of misdemeanor based on age differential here in California). ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/58 "2013-05-23T17:26:17Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > In this case, it’s an 18 year old charged for statutory rape of a 14 year old. > > May I ask, **Loach** and **Pravnik** , which states? Posting on a phone is my excuse for not checking location. For Texas, a three year age gap is allowed,. In New Jersey it’s four years as long as it’s the younger teen is at least 13. So if Kaitlyn Hunt lived in NJ, everything is peachy. In Florida, she takes a plea and gets 2 years house arrest and the sex offender registry or faces a maximum 15 year sentence if she goes to trial. Bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/59 "2013-05-23T22:30:40Z")
I voted without even reading what was going on. Yeah, it’s not ideal, but it does happen. Fourteen does make it worse, but not quite over the line. But that’s as far as you can go. Not just because of the age difference, but also because you’re into _Lolita_ territory, i.e. mid-pubescence. That’s to young to be with any post-pubescent–something that, BTW, I notice few people considering in these sorts of things. It’s not just the gap that matters. In fact, the gap is the lesser problem. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/60 "2013-05-24T01:11:37Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > many dopers reading this had grandparents who knew of someone who legally had consensual relationships with 10 yr old girls in the 1890’s. Seriously? Seriously? _890_ is more like it. :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958.md?page=4)