# 18/15 yr old sexual relationship. Appropriate punishment? Same sex if it matters. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 21, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958 "2013-05-21T20:48:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/81 "2013-05-24T23:29:46Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > According to CNNs interview the girls were 18 and 14 when it started. > > "In an interview with CNN affiliate WPEC, Jim and Laurie Smith insisted that the girls’ gender has nothing to do with the case. They are concerned about ages. > > “Our daughter was 14, and this girl was 18,” said Jim Smith. > > According to the Smiths, they twice warned Hunt to stop." > > [http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/24/justice/florida-teen-sex-case/index.html?hpt=hp\_t1](http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/24/justice/florida-teen-sex-case/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) The 14-year-old’s parents sound reasonable in that article. Whether or not they really are, I couldn’t say, but just going by that article I think it sounds like they might have done the right thing. We don’t know their daughter, she might have been a young-acting 14-year-old and the older girl might have been pressuring her. Or maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/82 "2013-05-25T00:31:01Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Kaitlyn Hunt rejected the plea deal. That could be a huge mistake. The legal analysts are saying this is a easy case to make. The ages makes it a crime. > > Charging a teenage for sex with a classmate is wrong from my viewpoint, but that won’t keep her out of prison. > > [http://www.wpbf.com/news/south-florida/treasure-coast/kaitlyn-hunt-will-not-take-a-plea-deal/-/8882916/20290912/-/kwrq5k/-/index.html](http://www.wpbf.com/news/south-florida/treasure-coast/kaitlyn-hunt-will-not-take-a-plea-deal/-/8882916/20290912/-/kwrq5k/-/index.html) Rejecting the deal might be a mistake, but it was ridiculous to make them felony counts. What purpose would be served by handicpping the rest of Hunts life? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/83 "2013-05-25T02:09:10Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Rejecting the deal might be a mistake, but it was ridiculous to make them felony counts. What purpose would be served by handicpping the rest of Hunts life? The purpose of Teaching Her A Lesson, namely, that justice is blind, dumb as an ass and deaf to the pleadings of outraged humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/84 "2013-05-25T02:19:11Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > The thing that really bothers me about this, is that the parents said nothing and did nothing about their relationship while the ‘offender’ was under 18. But the moment she turned 18, they went to the cops. That’s just wrong and should be reason enough to throw out the case. 18 and 15 is not such an age difference that it should be illegal. Especially when they were in a relationship before the elder even turned 18. You have to use some damn common sense here. She was already 18 when they started dating, but even if she hadn’t been there was nothing they could have done until then. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Florida has sort of a weird law for this. A person aged 24 or below cannot be prosecuted for a consensual sexual act with a person aged 16 or 17\*. However, if the defendant is older than 24 or the victim is younger than 16, there’s no protection at all. > > Most of the time, these kids are offered pretrial diversion. I expect, but for the media response, that would already have occurred here. > > \*Theoretically, the older one could still be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/85 "2013-05-25T12:39:25Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > … In Florida, she takes a plea and gets 2 years house arrest and the sex offender registry or faces a maximum 15 year sentence if she goes to trial. Bizarre. The pleas deal she was offered would not have placed her on the sexual offender registry. From the [CNN article linked by others](http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/24/justice/florida-teen-sex-case/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) > [@](#): > > The office of State Attorney Bruce Colton said it tendered an "extremely lenient plea offer in this case which would have ensured that the defendant avoided any term of incarceration and the stigma of being labeled a sex offender. One could argue whether this is a lenient plea bargain or not, but it did not require sex offender registry. ---
**Author:** ![KermitTheFrig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/47e85d/32.png) [@KermitTheFrig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KermitTheFrig)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/86 "2013-05-25T15:50:12Z")
That’s the difference between sophomores and seniors in high school. They’re really basically “the same age” as far as dating goes. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/87 "2013-05-25T18:24:05Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > The pleas deal she was offered would not have placed her on the sexual offender registry. > > From the [CNN article linked by others](http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/24/justice/florida-teen-sex-case/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) > > One could argue whether this is a lenient plea bargain or not, but it did not require sex offender registry. A lot of misinformation in the media. Even [news stories](http://www.salon.com/2013/05/24/kaitlyn_hunt_refuses_plea_offer_will_go_to_court_over_high_school_relationship/) from yesterday claim Hunt would have been on the sex offender registry. Somewhat puzzling to me is the paragraph following the one you quoted, from the prosecutor’s statement: > [@](#): > > “In fact, in all probability the defendant would have avoided being a convicted felon,” the statement continued. Colton will prepare for a mid-July trial. How does pleading guilty to two felony counts allow someone to avoid being a convicted felon? Perhaps the conviction would be expunged if she successfully completed the probabation period? The article doesn’t say. Also in that article, Hunt’s lawyer says: > [@](#): > > “This is a life sentence for behavior that is all too common, whether male, female, gay, straight,” Graves said at a Wednesday news conference. > “High school relationships may be fleeting,” she said, “but felony convictions are forever.” ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/88 "2013-05-25T18:38:40Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > It’s statutory rape, plain and simple. She doesn’t get a pass because she’s female. > > If anyone, regardless of gender, had sex with my daughter at 14 or 15, I’d be pretty upset. That’s just too young. If the person turned out to be 18, I’d be pretty likely to prosecute. The difference in judgement and “power” in a relationship between those two ages is enormous. > > Of course I’d like to think that our relationship is such that I woudl know early on and put an end to it before it got tp that point, but that’s not the hypothetical before us. > > 17-18 year-olds who date 14-15 year-olds know perfectly well what they are doing,and that kids that much younger are easy to manipulate. If the older one were male, I don’t think there would even be a disucssion here. If her parents want her to be treated equally with heterosexuals, then thy also have to accept responsibility for teaching her about statutory rape laws and instilling the self-discipline to follow them. THIS. This is what good parents do. No matter what the gender a 14 or 15 year old’s parents can tell him/her no dating (sex or otherwise) an 18 year old and _it stands._ If the parents have to bring in the law to stop it good for them. The parents of the 18 year old are at fault for not training their child in the laws of their state on statutory rape. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/89 "2013-05-25T19:01:19Z")
This case is especially bizarre to me because I went to high school in the late 70’s and early 80’s. At my school the senior girls mostly dated 18 and 19 year old guys. Very often these were relationships that started when the girl was a sophomore and the guy was a senior. The relationship continued after he graduated. A lot of girls in my school married their high school love after finishing high school. I took a 16 yr old girl to my senior prom. We dated for awhile after I graduated. So yes my 18 year old self dated a 17 year old. The best outcome will be for Florida to change their laws. If they are throwing teens that just turned 18 into prison for sex. Maybe this case will wake some dumb asses up and a more reasonable law will come from it. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/90 "2013-05-25T19:20:30Z")
But 18/17 is perfectly legal in Florida. As is 18/16. The law there sets a bright line at age 16. Any lower than 16 and adults cannot legally fuck you. As much as it would be nice to measure each incident on a case-by-case basis the law does not work that way. There must be clarity so that the adult knows unambiguously what is legal and what is not. The accused’s family seems to be trying to appeal to something that is little more than she-didn’t-look-_that_-young. They make a point that the younger girl was physically mature and physically larger than the accused. Doesn’t matter. The law for adults there is no fucking someone under age 16, even if they look older. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Made_French_Toast_For_You)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/91 "2013-05-25T20:27:58Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > But 18/17 is perfectly legal in Florida. As is 18/16. The law there sets a bright line at age 16. Any lower than 16 and adults cannot legally fuck you. > > As much as it would be nice to measure each incident on a case-by-case basis the law does not work that way. There must be clarity so that the adult knows unambiguously what is legal and what is not. > > The accused’s family seems to be trying to appeal to something that is little more than she-didn’t-look-_that_-young. They make a point that the younger girl was physically mature and physically larger than the accused. Doesn’t matter. The law for adults there is no fucking someone under age 16, even if they look older. Just because something is illegal doesn’t automatically make it wrong. Most people in this thread understand the law, and also understand that it’s bullshit when applied, for example, to consenting high school basketball teammates. Consensual sex between a 14- and 18-year-old shouldn’t result in potentially sending the 18-year-old to prison for 9 years alongside pedophiles, rapists, and other sexual predators. Adolescent sex needs to stop being a bugaboo. One third of 9th graders (14- and 15-year-olds) have had sexual intercourse. Two thirds of 12th graders. They go to school together – of course some of them are going to be fucking. We should be trying to make it safe – not sending kids to prison or labeling them sex offenders. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/92 "2013-05-25T21:35:21Z")
Much of the problem is the sentencing. I wouldn’t be happy if my 15 year old was dating a 19 year old. But treating that like hardcore rape or pedos makes no sense. There should be an entirely different sentence for consensual sex with minors if the older person is under 20. That shouldn’t even be a felony unless the younger person is under 13. Really the age of consent should be 15. That’s just being realistic. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/93 "2013-05-26T04:00:46Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > It should be treated exactly the same as an opposite-sex couple of the same ages would be , but there’s a reason Romeo and Juliet laws use a " x years difference in age" standard. I like the way my state (Washington), and some others do it - they specify the age difference in months, not years. Doing it that way takes into account these situations where the older person just turned 18 and the younger was almost 16. “Three years difference” becomes, say, “26 months difference”. (The limit here in WA is actually 48 months, which means that a HS senior is unlikely to get in legal trouble for having sex with a HS freshman.) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/94 "2013-05-28T00:57:08Z")
I see no one answered my question in post 72. I win the thread! ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/95 "2013-05-28T02:47:16Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Kaitlyn Hunt rejected the plea deal. That could be a huge mistake. The legal analysts are saying this is a easy case to make. The ages makes it a crime. > > Charging a teenage for sex with a classmate is wrong from my viewpoint, but that won’t keep her out of prison. > > [http://www.wpbf.com/news/south-florida/treasure-coast/kaitlyn-hunt-will-not-take-a-plea-deal/-/8882916/20290912/-/kwrq5k/-/index.html](http://www.wpbf.com/news/south-florida/treasure-coast/kaitlyn-hunt-will-not-take-a-plea-deal/-/8882916/20290912/-/kwrq5k/-/index.html) The problem is, they’re not “classmates” but school mates. If, as reported one was 18 and one was 14, I’d say it’s entirely appropriate that the elder gets charged. At 18 and 15, I also feel that gap is too big - with a three year gap its easy to see the younger being pressured. Although if it’s truly judged to be “consensual” (i.e absent bullying or some other sort of undue pressure) then it shouldn’t be a felony (yes I know that theory about too young to consent, but I would reject it as at 15, you are old enough to know your own mind) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/96 "2013-05-28T04:53:41Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I laugh at the idea that an 18 year old is some how a totally different beast than a 14 or 15 year old. It varies so much from person to person that you really can’t make any sort of general statements. They are all kids. They all go to the same schools (high school). They are 2 or 3 grades apart. > > As a former high school teacher who taught sophomores, juniors, and seniors, I can say that they are all about the same, really, truly, honestly. I’ve yet to see a child that didn’t change in obvious and substantial ways during their teen years. I find it hard to believe a teacher doesn’t see these changes. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/97 "2013-05-28T15:34:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This case is especially bizarre to me because I went to high school in the late 70’s and early 80’s. At my school the senior girls mostly dated 18 and 19 year old guys. Very often these were relationships that started when the girl was a sophomore and the guy was a senior. The relationship continued after he graduated. A lot of girls in my school married their high school love after finishing high school. > . . . I went to high school in the mid-late 80’s myself. How well I remember the gaggles of Senior men openly “scoping out” the freshman girls as we entered the building on the first day. Most of my classmates were naively flattered by the attention, thinking it meant they were personally attractive, as opposed to just newly available. My older brother was a Senior my Freshman year, and he spent much of his free time chasing his classmates away from my locker. Young girls these days are a bit more informed, but it’s still true that the difference in social development between a freshman and a Senior is substantial. Heck, I know 40-year-old women who have trouble recognizing the difference between romantic compliments and predatory flattery. I think giving girls until age 15 to catch up is a good call. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/98 "2013-05-28T16:29:47Z")
It is hard to know the truth of these matters, but I think what we all want is for the matter to be resolved with as little harm to either of the young women involved as possible. The 18 year old girl may be a legal adult, but she’s absolutely as young as you can be and still be an adult. She might be a predator in her heart, seeking a much younger girl because she knews she can manipulate her more easily than a girl her own age. But more likely, she’s just an entitled 18 year old who really really wanted to date the 14 year old and had always gotten whatever she wanted before, so could not conceive of any reason why she should not be able to date the 14 year old. I’m especially puzzled because the 14 year old claims it was a completely consensual relationship. Granted, one of the things a really skilled predator can do is make their prey think they are doing something consensually, even when they are being subtly manipulated into it, but given the amount of pushback the poor 14 year old is probably getting from her parents, this seems unlikely to be the case. I’ll bet she’s as dismayed and confused by all the legal proceedings as the 18 year old. I’m just guessing on these points, but I’m comfortable with my guesses. If the law HAS to be involved, I would say that a fair charge might be a misdemeanor with a year’s probation, considering our “offender” is a first time “offender” and the young “victim” says it was a consensual relationship. I’m at a loss why felony charges are being pursued, under the circumstances, seems rather harsh. I can only assume that the only kind of charge available to the DA was a felony charge … and I am having a lot of trouble believing that. A final bit of irony. The 14 year old’s parents are a mixed-race couple. Sixty years ago, we might have been debating what sort of prison term THEY would have to serve for daring to love one another. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/99 "2013-05-28T16:47:20Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > She might be a predator in her heart, seeking a much younger girl because she knews she can manipulate her more easily than a girl her own age. But more likely, she’s just an entitled 18 year old who really really wanted to date the 14 year old and had always gotten whatever she wanted before, so could not conceive of any reason why she should not be able to date the 14 year old. I suppose there’s also the possibility that being gay dramatically reduced her options for romance, and the younger girl was the only other gay girl she had met at school. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958/100 "2013-05-28T22:18:46Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > The thing that really bothers me about this, is that the parents said nothing and did nothing about their relationship while the ‘offender’ was under 18. But the moment she turned 18, they went to the cops. It wasn’t a crime until the older one turned 18. They couldn’t go to the cops until then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-15-yr-old-sexual-relationship-appropriate-punishment-same-sex-if-it-matters/658958.md?page=6)