# 18 day gap in Justice Department emails? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2007, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910 "2007-03-21T19:40:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/1 "2007-03-21T19:40:14Z")
[Apparently](http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003560697) the massive 3000-page document dump from the Justice Department earlier this week was missing 18 crucial days of emails from late November and early December 2006 – the time right before the questionable firings occured. This raises all sorts of questions: How bad does this look for the administration? Is it possible that this was a simple mistake? Were they hoping the bulk of the document dump would mask the gap? Now that they’ve released all these other documents, is there any way they can avoid releasing these emails as well? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/2 "2007-03-21T19:42:22Z")
Given the dishonesty that we’ve already seen here, I’d need some amazing evidence to be convinced this was an error. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/3 "2007-03-21T19:48:44Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Given the dishonesty that we’ve already seen here, I’d need some amazing evidence to be convinced this was an error. [/QUOTE] Of course it was an error - just don’t ask them about it while they are under oath, in public or are having the answer transcribed. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/4 "2007-03-21T19:48:51Z")
Is it weird that my first thought was of an 18 minute gap in relation to this 18 day gap? Edit: Well, look at that. Referenced right in the linked story. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/5 "2007-03-21T19:50:58Z")
There seems to be some delay in posting the contents of today’s [white house press conference.](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/briefings/). [Here’s a video of Tony Snow](http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002837.php) fielding a question on the gap. A fair and balanced paraphrase: **“I don’t know why there’s a gap. Why don’t you ask justice?”** ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/6 "2007-03-21T19:51:32Z")
Trion, I don’t know if it’s weird, but that’s what came to my mind too. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/7 "2007-03-21T19:52:25Z")
[QUOTE=Trion] Is it weird that my first thought was of an 18 minute gap in relation to this 18 day gap? [/QUOTE] No, I had the same thought before I read the story. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/8 "2007-03-21T19:55:45Z")
I can’t believe this was a mistake, but what were they thinking? They can’t possibly have hoped a gap in the most important time period wouldn’t be noticed. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/9 "2007-03-21T20:03:42Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I can’t believe this was a mistake, but what were they thinking? They can’t possibly have hoped a gap in the most important time period wouldn’t be noticed. [/QUOTE] The whole point of a 3000 page dump was so that Congressional investigators would be so overwhelmed with the sheer volume and the need to check it all that they’d miss things like that. About half the documents released were transcripts of hearings, which are mostly publicly available anyway and are generally irrelevant in the first place. What Fielding et.al. didn’t take into account was this newfangled interweb thingie and the several thousands of rather involved people (quite a few over at Talking Points Memo) who actually began to take the document dump apart _as it was being released_ the other night. Darn those active and involved citizens! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/10 "2007-03-21T20:56:37Z")
[Today’s press briefing is up](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/03/20070321-4.html) : > [@](#): > > Q Okay. You keep saying the Justice Department, the response – that these emails, the 3,000 pages is unprecedented, is very responsive. Why, then, is there this gap from mid-November to about December 4th, right before the actual firings? Why is there a gap in the emails? > > MR. SNOW: I don’t know. Why don’t you ask them? > > Q Well, you’re the White House, the Justice Department serves under – > > MR. SNOW: I know, but I’m not going to be the fact witness on Justice. > > Q But you’re the one representing that this has been very responsive. Now when there’s a gap you say go to them. > > MR. SNOW: Yes, and I’ve been led to believe that there’s a good response for it, but I’m going to let you ask them because they’re going to have the answer. > > Q There is one email from November 15th from Mr. Sampson to Harriet Miers, I believe, “Who will determine whether this requires the President’s attention?” > > MR. SNOW: Right. > > Q And then there’s a gap in emails. Was there any – perhaps any emails about the President in there? And did the President have to sign off on this? Because the question was raised – > > MR. SNOW: The President has no recollection of this ever being raised with him. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/11 "2007-03-21T21:17:15Z")
I think the gap was to let the Justice Department go very carefully over those e-mails and get their answers ready - getting all their ducks in a row before the e-mails are made public. The reason for the gap can easily be justified - “we were confirming that there was nothing classified in the e-mails before we released them to the public” or something in that vein. What would be more exciting is if some White House computer nerd appears at a press conference waving his slide rule like a sword and saying “None of your beeswax. You want those e-mails, come and get them! But you’ll never manage to break my encryption scheme.” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/12 "2007-03-21T21:24:50Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] MR. SNOW: The President has no recollection of this ever being raised with him. [/QUOTE] I loved how one reporter asked, if Bush was never brought into the loop, how he can make a claim of executive privilege under the premise that he needs his advisors to feel free to give him all the information they can so that he can make good judgments. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/13 "2007-03-21T21:26:22Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] The reason for the gap can easily be justified - “we were confirming that there was nothing classified in the e-mails before we released them to the public” or something in that vein. [/QUOTE] Sure, right up until such a claim is made post-hoc, _after_ characterizing the document dump as full and exceptionally forthcoming. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/14 "2007-03-21T21:35:15Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] The reason for the gap can easily be justified - “we were confirming that there was nothing classified in the e-mails before we released them to the public” or something in that vein. [/QUOTE] I don’t think that will fly. Why would personnel decisions in the Justice Department be classified? And why did that particular batch of email need further review? From looking at the docs on the Justice Department website it doesn’t look like there’s any sort of ID stamp on the emails to determine if some have just been deleted. Perhaps the missing emails were held back to cull any that might be embarrassing – they might have thought it would take a week or two to sift through the dump and by the time anyone noticed the gap they would have finished cleaning them up. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/15 "2007-03-21T21:35:22Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] MR. SNOW: The President has no recollection of this ever being raised with him. [/QUOTE] Snow really just happens to know, off the top of his head, what the President does or does not recall? Dollars to doughnuts, this response is something a bunch of lawyers worked out rather than something Snow was told by the President. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/16 "2007-03-21T21:38:39Z")
That entire transcript is laughable, with Snow doing his darnedest to parse the difference between an “interview” and “testimony”, and attempting to characterize any effort at transparency as a “spectacle”. Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/17 "2007-03-21T21:40:25Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] I loved how one reporter asked, if Bush was never brought into the loop, how he can make a claim of executive privilege under the premise that he needs his advisors to feel free to give him all the information they can so that he can make good judgments. [/QUOTE] It’s similar to the argument they’re making about the Bush’s authority over the attorneys: Only the President has the authority to hire and fire at will, but the President didn’t know anything about these particular hirings and firings. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/18 "2007-03-21T21:50:10Z")
Where’s [Rose Mary Woods](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Woods) when you need her? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/19 "2007-03-21T21:59:20Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] [Today’s press briefing is up](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/03/20070321-4.html) : [/QUOTE] My favourite part from the briefing: > [@](#): > > Q So, Tony, back when President Clinton was citing executive privilege to keep internal deliberations in that White House from being talked about in Congress, you wrote – now famously – > > … > > Q No, no. But you wrote quite eloquently about this. You said, “Taken to its logical extreme, that position would make it impossible for citizens to hold the chief executive accountable. We would have a constitutional right to a coverup.” > > MR. SNOW: Right. Now let me – > > Q So why were you wrong then and right now? > > MR. SNOW: Because this is a not entirely analogous situation. I’ve just told you what we have, in fact, offered to make available to members of Congress. And what we are doing is we are holding apart confidential communications between advisors and the President. And that is pretty standard practice in White Houses. But, again – > > Q It’s exactly what the Clinton administration talked about. > > MR. SNOW: Well, I’m not so sure. And I’ll let others do the legal arguing on that. But the important point here is we’re maintaining the presidential prerogatives. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910/20 "2007-03-21T22:07:38Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] I don’t think that will fly. Why would personnel decisions in the Justice Department be classified? And why did that particular batch of email need further review? [/QUOTE] You’re right, I should have used the word “confidential”. I’m not saying it would be a _good_ excuse, just something good enough to tell the public. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/18-day-gap-in-justice-department-emails/396910.md?page=2)