# 1912 US Presidential Election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 8, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901 "2012-08-08T21:36:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/21 "2012-08-10T00:43:32Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > 424,000 dead from [starvation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Germany). !!! Did not know that! I wonder **why** Germany couldn’t feed its people? There’s no shortage of arable land, like there is in Japan. The article blames lack of imported fertiliser, but is that the whole explanation? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/22 "2012-08-10T00:45:19Z")
You can’t turn arable-but-unused land into productive farmland overnight. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/23 "2012-08-10T00:46:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You can’t turn arable-but-unused land into productive farmland overnight. You could in America. Countless homesteaders did that before there were such things as tractors. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/24 "2012-08-10T02:20:58Z")
Captain Amazing you are quite the fan of William Taft. I appreciate the style and substance of your arguments on his behalf. What do you say to those that allege Taft’s allegiance to Rockefeller led to his pursuing antitrust cases against International Harvester and US Steel, two large Morgan trusts? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/25 "2012-08-10T02:43:46Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > America can be proud that President Taft, mindful of the federal government’s role to preserve the wild, established by proclamation Rainbow Bridge National Monument in Utah, the Colorado National Monument in Colorado, and the Devils Postpile National Monument in California, and took a leading role in convincing Congress to pass the Weeks Act, allowing the Federal government to protect watersheds and prevent fires in America’s forests. President Taft is also proud that he has added thousands of acres of wilderness to the reserves, and has also appointed Henry Graves as Chief Forester, replacing the former Chief Forester, named by the previous administration, who chose, rather than do his duty, to stir up scurrilous rumors against the Secretary of the Interior; charges of which the Secretary has been cleared in every particular. Well done! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/26 "2012-08-10T03:40:16Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Captain Amazing you are quite the fan of William Taft. I appreciate the style and substance of your arguments on his behalf. What do you say to those that allege Taft’s allegiance to Rockefeller led to his pursuing antitrust cases against International Harvester and US Steel, two large Morgan trusts? I would say, first, that the Taft administration need never apologize for legal action against those trusts that restrain trade or act contrary to the public interest, regardless of what individual or individuals may invest in them, and second, that any supposed collusion between the President and Mr. Rockefeller would seem to be disproved by the Justice Department’s 1911 suit against the Standard Oil trust; a lawsuit that served to break up the company. That Mr. Rockefeller is a Republican, and that he supported President Taft in 1908, there is, of course, no doubt. Nor do we believe that this reflects poorly on the President. He welcomes the support of all individuals who support the Republican principles of responsible government, measured and careful progress, and respect for the fundamental values of life, liberty, and property that form the cornerstone of this nation. The Republican party knows that it is vital that the rights of both the property owner and the worker be respected; that the owner be free, so long as he does not violate the law in doing so, to pursue his business interests, to run his business as he sees fit, and to enjoy the profits that he so accrues if he is successful, and that the worker has the right to a fair wage and protection from dangerous conditions. The fact that we believe that industry should prosper, however, does not mean that we support unlawful combinations or undue influence. The Republican Party is the party of law, not of lawlessness; of progress, not revolution, and of tradition, not reaction. I leave you with some comments by the President regarding the proper relationship between labor and capital. > **[Labor and capital](https://www.loc.gov/item/jukebox-132179/)** > > Victor 35256. Matrix/Take: C-12449/1. And more, on the differences between honest and dishonest trusts. > **[What constitutes an unlawful trust](https://www.loc.gov/item/jukebox-126604/)** > > Victor 31710. Matrix/Take: C-6338/1. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/27 "2012-08-10T06:29:17Z")
“I would rather vote for something I want and not get it, than vote for something I don’t want and get it.” -Eugene V. Debs It is interesting to see that the third+ party candidates are getting more votes this time around… ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/28 "2012-08-10T06:38:42Z")
[quote=“Captain\_Amazing, post:26, topic:630901”] I would say, first, that the Taft administration need never apologize for legal action against those trusts that restrain trade or act contrary to the public interest, regardless of what individual or individuals may invest in them, and second, that any supposed collusion between the President and Mr. Rockefeller would seem to be disproved by the Justice Department’s 1911 suit against the Standard Oil trust; a lawsuit that served to break up the company. The case against Standard Oil was started under Roosevelt (a Morgan man) in 1906. Taft did continue it, though. The resultant break-up of the company made Rockefeller the richest man in the world. It was Taft’s pursuit of antitrust against Morgan trusts that caused Morgan to support Roosevelt as well as Wilson in the election, fracturing Taft’s electorate and ensuring a Wilson victory. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/29 "2012-08-10T11:01:35Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The case against Standard Oil was started under Roosevelt (a Morgan man) in 1906. Taft did continue it, though. The resultant break-up of the company made Rockefeller the richest man in the world. It was Taft’s pursuit of antitrust against Morgan trusts that caused Morgan to support Roosevelt as well as Wilson in the election, fracturing Taft’s electorate and ensuring a Wilson victory. It seems a difficult proposition to rebut, when I am told that the case for the President’s corruption is first that he took action against US Steel for restraint of trade, thereby hurting Mr. Morgan and helping Mr. Rockefeller, and second, that he took action against Standard Oil for restraint of trade, thereby hurting Mr. Morgan and helping Mr. Rockefeller. Colonel Roosevelt’s corruption; his ties to Mr. Morgan at the expense of the country’s good, are well known, as is George Perkins’ role in the so called ‘Progressive’ party. But no, I will not speak of it. Decency prevents me. We should instead remember Colonel Roosevelt for what he was, before he chose to abandon the Republican party to serve his own ambition. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/30 "2012-08-10T20:12:25Z")
I like to think that, had I been alive in 1912 and living where I live now, I would have been agitating for the political liberation of my people by whatever means necessary. ETA: My finger slipped in the poll, incidentally; I meant to go all socialist. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/31 "2012-08-10T21:06:46Z")
Roosevelt was the greatest Conservation President. He gets my vote. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/32 "2012-08-10T22:30:18Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > “I would rather vote for something I want and not get it, than vote for something I don’t want and get it.” > > -Eugene V. Debs “The best is the enemy of the good.” – Voltaire ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/33 "2012-08-10T22:48:17Z")
As much as I love TR, I would have voted for the incumbent rather than a third-party, third-term candidate. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/34 "2012-08-10T22:54:02Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > Wilson kept us out of war for the term we’re voting on here. You could totally wait until the 2016 election to put in a candidate for peace. WWI began 7/28/14, about 1 year 8 months after the 1912 general election. In 1916 incumbent Wilson ran on an “He kept us out of war” signature slogan. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/35 "2012-08-10T23:52:42Z")
Definitely T.R.: naturalist, trust-buster, political reformer, author, naval power advocate, progressive on virtually every issue. I’m a huge fan. Assuming I knew then what I know now, Wilson was a racist, did not prepare the nation for entry into WWI, and badly mishandled the League of Nations controversy. Taft was just not well-suited to the Presidency; he did much better as Chief Justice. The other candidates are not worth my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/36 "2012-08-11T02:32:23Z")
That’s another thing. Since the dawn of the Republic, presidents have followed President Washington’s custom, and not served more than two terms. So now, why does Colonel Roosevelt wish to violate that? Does he really want the name of Roosevelt to be associated with breaking the two term tradition? ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/37 "2012-08-11T08:20:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ideology?! I thought the Bull Moose Party was based on TR alone – like the Reform Party was based on Ross Perot alone (Perot fiercely resisted any efforts to develop it into anything else, which is why it ain’t around any more). Well, fair enough, but what I mean is that it was a party that actually defined itself based on its positions (even if most were just voting for TR’s personality), as opposed to the major parties at the time that defined themselves more on their constituencies. Maybe a Bull Moose victory would have ended with TR reconciling with the Republicans and then business as usual, but a third party Presidential victory seems to spell death for an American party system status quo. By 1912 there were certainly large and polarizing ideological differences, but they cut across party lines instead of with them. I would think that a reshuffling of the party systems in the wake of a third party victory in 1912 would almost certainly produce a progressive and a conservative party like exist in the current party system. To a certain extent that is what happened, with the Democrats tending to be the more progressive of the two after 1912, but there were still tons of conservative Democrats and progressive Republicans for at least another two decades. For all its failings, I think most would agree that having parties that define themselves based on their policy positions is generally preferable to the old spoils-based party politics of the 19th century that persisted all too long. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/38 "2012-08-11T23:26:06Z")
Can I change my vote to **Captain Amazing**? I’m assuming we have a time machine, since I’m going back to vote. I’m also assuming that reaching the age of 35 qualifies one to be President even if you’re -52 when you actually run. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/39 "2012-08-12T12:11:08Z")
Theodore would have had my vote, my contributions and my volunteer work to get him re-elected. As to the 2-term limit. That is a fair objection but he had not actually served two terms anyway. 1900 was of course McKinley who was assassinated very early in his term. So by technicality TR would not be violating the voluntary 2 term limit. The man was brilliant and had a very positive vision for the future of the country. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901/40 "2012-08-12T14:32:19Z")
My vote goes to Lyndon LaRouche. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1912-us-presidential-election/630901.md?page=3)