# 1931 serial killer movie 'M' (spoilers probable) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 19, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004 "2010-03-19T13:29:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/21 "2010-03-19T22:58:40Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > According to what you said, I don’t have to. It uses the same script as _Dr. Mabuse_. > [@aruvqan](#): > > referring to the QUALITY. Stop being stupid about it. If it was a remake, I would have called it a remake. Let’s move on and not derail the thread, please. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/22 "2010-03-19T23:01:43Z")
> [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > If I’m not mistaken, it’s the earliest movie out there that shows an in-depth police investigation. > > It was inspired by the real-life exploits of serial killer Peter Kurten, known as “The Dusseldorf Vampire”. And cleaned up quite a bit from Kurten’s actual antics! YIKES! ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/23 "2010-03-20T00:09:25Z")
_M_ may be my favorite black and white movie of all time. It’s as well constructed as a fine watch - every shot and location, all the sequencing and pacing, is _just_ right. The story builds so elegantly you almost forget how sordid its subject matter is. It was even remade - by Joseph Losey in 1951, which was very bad timing and surely helped put him on the blacklist (along with quite a few of his creative team). David Wayne played the sicko with the perfect fey manner, and Losey made the story work as L.A. noir - and _in broad daylight._ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Shroud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@The\_Shroud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Shroud)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/24 "2010-03-20T18:09:09Z")
Based on this thread (and since it was always on my “been meaning to watch” list), I rented it last night. Good stuff! As an editor, I really liked that the editing lent the movie most of its style. For instance, the cutaways with voice over were really effective. I especially liked the moment when the police sergeant tells the crook that one of the security guards was killed, and we see a cutaway of the guard enjoying some schnitzel and beer. And Steven Soderbergh couldn’t have paced that manhunt scene any better. Looking at other discussions of the movie, here and elsewhere, it seems like a lot of viewers fully buy M’s story that he goes into a dissociative state while killing kids. To me, it just seemed like the sort of excuse a murderer would come up with when faced with an angry mob. How else do you explain the gloating letters? But I guess Lang’s point was to leave it ambiguous. Like the mother at the end says, there’s no explanation and no justice that will suffice to bring the kids back to life. By the way, is the dialogue really that racy in German, or did the modern subtitle authors try to ramp it up? Lots of swears on the Criterion version that I saw. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/25 "2010-03-20T18:18:21Z")
I’ve always wondered whether the saturnine Mr. Lorre (Lazlo Lowenstein) was as chilling in person as he was on film. Wiki states that when he attended Bela Lugosi’s funeral with Boris Karloff, during the viewing, he was said to have turned to “Frankenstein” and asked, “Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart?” ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/26 "2010-03-20T19:05:04Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > I’ve always wondered whether the saturnine Mr. Lorre (Lazlo Lowenstein) was as chilling in person as he was on film. AIUI, he was genteel, witty and urbane - good company. He could also drink about anyone under the table. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/27 "2010-03-21T08:28:13Z")
> [@The\_Shroud](#): > > Based on this thread (and since it was always on my “been meaning to watch” list), I rented it last night. Good stuff! > > As an editor, I really liked that the editing lent the movie most of its style. For instance, the cutaways with voice over were really effective. I especially liked the moment when the police sergeant tells the crook that one of the security guards was killed, and we see a cutaway of the guard enjoying some schnitzel and beer. And Steven Soderbergh couldn’t have paced that manhunt scene any better. > > Looking at other discussions of the movie, here and elsewhere, it seems like a lot of viewers fully buy M’s story that he goes into a dissociative state while killing kids. To me, it just seemed like the sort of excuse a murderer would come up with when faced with an angry mob. How else do you explain the gloating letters? > > But I guess Lang’s point was to leave it ambiguous. Like the mother at the end says, there’s no explanation and no justice that will suffice to bring the kids back to life. > > By the way, is the dialogue really that racy in German, or did the modern subtitle authors try to ramp it up? Lots of swears on the Criterion version that I saw. Germany did not have the same Motion Picture Code that we had in the US. They did have governmental oversight on what could be shown in Germany and what couldn’t .. [cheating by what I remember from a discussion with a couple film historians I ran into at a festival of foreign films at U of Rochester a number of years ago] so swearing, and stuff like the [dance scene](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DukMPx6Fn_c) in Metropolis were fine, and tended to get censored out when sent over to the US. [dance scene starts at about 6:55 or so. Very nice ab isolations :D] Actually, I recommend Metropolis as well. Very nicely filmed. I am one of the wierd people who actually likes the Moroder soundtrack and own it, but the original classic score is also good. And for something really odd, there is a shot for shot remake of The Cabinet of Dr Caligari that is surprisingly good, that used to be on instant gratification Netflix … ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/28 "2010-03-23T16:10:52Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > Wiki states that when he attended Bela Lugosi’s funeral with Boris Karloff, during the viewing, he was said to have turned to “Frankenstein” and asked, “Do you think we should drive a stake through his heart?” Neither Peter Lorre nor Boris Karloff attended Lugosi’s funeral. Karloff was in England at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/29 "2010-03-23T16:17:34Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > I’ve always wondered whether the saturnine Mr. Lorre (Lazlo Lowenstein) was as chilling in person as he was on film. I would’ve liked to find out. Somehow, in the process of imagining what it might have been like to eat dinner with the man, I found myself picturing dinner with Peter Lorre and Steve Buscemi. Imagine trying to eat with those eyes looking at you. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/30 "2010-03-23T16:44:42Z")
I happened to see this movie this weekend. It’s one I’ve seen clips of often enough that I wasn’t sure if I had actually seen the whole thing before or not. As it turned out, I hadn’t. Excellent film. Almost certainly the best film of it’s age. The police procedure shown was state of the art for the day - almost _eighty years ago_, and, as others have noted, the film feels like it could have been done last year, except that no current director could have done as good a job. It was Lang’s first sound movie, and his use of sound is brilliant. Almost a third of the movie is silent - more so than silent movies, which always were played with a musical background. Also consider the social context - this was made during the rise of Nazism in Germany . The attitude of the police, the public, and the gangs all have more than slightly creepy overtones when you think of that. The performances were outstanding. Lorre, of course, but also the actors who played the police inspector, the other police officials, the head criminal, the blind beggar, the poor sap who got left behind in the building, all were excellent. Great movie. I look at what’s playing down the street today and wonder how such magnificent technology can produce such crap in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/31 "2010-03-23T17:03:05Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Also consider the social context - this was made during the rise of Nazism in Germany . The attitude of the police, the public, and the gangs all have more than slightly creepy overtones when you think of that. More of an _ex post facto_ view. Lang had made much more sinister movies a decade earlier, with ruthless criminal masterminds bent on destruction. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/32 "2010-03-23T17:40:29Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Also consider the social context - this was made during the rise of Nazism in Germany . The attitude of the police, the public, and the gangs all have more than slightly creepy overtones when you think of that. Lang saw the writing on the wall. He made only one more German film before fleeing the country with his family after first turning down Goebbels’ offer to be the official head of the film division of the Nazi party, a position eventually occupied by Riefenstahl. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/33 "2010-03-23T17:59:27Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > the official head of the film division of the Nazi party, a position eventually occupied by Riefenstahl. Can you cite for this claim? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/34 "2010-03-23T18:08:58Z")
I’ll admit it’s a story that Lang promulgated for years (and which have been included in various histories of UFA, German film, and Lang himself, probably based largely on his accounting). Wiki shows a pretty balanced approach to the subject: > [@](#): > > Shortly afterwards, Lang left Germany but the circumstances of his emigration remain controversial: According to Lang, prograganda minister Joseph Goebbels called Lang to his offices to inform him that _The Testament of Dr Mabuse_ was being banned but that he was nevertheless so impressed by Lang’s abilities as a filmmaker (especially _Metropolis_), he was offering Lang a position as the head of German film studio UFA. Lang had been, unbeknownst to Goebbels, already planning to leave Germany for Paris, but the meeting with Goebbels ran so long that the banks were closed by the time it finished, and Lang fled that night without his money, not to return until after the war.[5][6] > > This account is problematic as many portions cannot be verified, while those that can, run counter to other evidence: Lang actually left Germany with most of his money, unlike most refugees, and made several return trips later in the same year. There were no witnesses to the meeting besides Goebbels and Lang, but Goebbels’s appointment books, when they refer to the meeting, mention only the banning of _Testament_. No evidence has been discovered in any of Goebbels’s writings to affirm the suggestion that he was planning to offer Lang any position. Jean-Luc Godard’s film _Contempt_ (1963), in which Lang appeared as himself, presents a bare outline of the story as fact. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/35 "2010-03-23T18:15:38Z")
Actually, I was referring to the claim that Leni Riefenstahl headed the film division of the Propaganda Ministry. As far as I know, she never held any party position. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/36 "2010-03-23T20:18:10Z")
Phenomenal movie. Maybe the scariest film I’ve ever encountered. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/37 "2010-03-23T23:23:19Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > I’ve always wondered whether the saturnine Mr. Lorre (Lazlo Lowenstein) was as chilling in person as he was on film. > > " Lorre was also a morphine addict. Sadly a lot of his later work was ot great. He was always a curious choice as Mr Moto IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/38 "2010-03-24T00:22:10Z")
Another “this movie blew my mind when I first saw it” post, especially when you consider the time in which it was made. In the U.S. they were working their way up to Shirley Temple movies (though I understand the Nazis put major restrictions on cinema when they came to power a couple of years later that would have made it impossible to remake _M_). Has anybody seen the [1951 Hollywood remake](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_(1951_film))? It stars David Wayne and is set in L.A… It was panned at the time but I’ve wondered if that was quality or subject matter. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/39 "2010-03-24T02:39:25Z")
I’ve seen it. It’s nowhere near the original, but it’s good on its own merits. AIUI, it was basically yanked from release because of extraordinarily poor timing. The blacklist was on, and the remake was considered a little too close to criticism of said blacklist - especially since director Joseph Losey and several of his creative team were already pretty pink. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004/40 "2010-03-24T04:11:36Z")
I admit, I hate Shirley Temple movies. 🙂 I had curly hair just like hers, and everyone called me a “little Shirley Temple”. Then I saw her movies and found how annoying she was. I have also heard the remake was no good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1931-serial-killer-movie-m-spoilers-probable/533004.md?page=1)