# 1986 world cup question **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 24, 2009, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761 "2009-11-24T11:12:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/1 "2009-11-24T11:12:26Z")
USSR had great players like Blokhin, Belanov,Dassayev. **But needed to beat hungary by a margin of 6 goals to progress to QFs**.They did that by winning 6-0. :dubious: Is the statement in bold correct ? The 6-0 win over Hungary,was it ever a disputed one ? Both being communist countries.Or am I imagining things ? ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/2 "2009-11-24T11:33:09Z")
> [@indian](#): > > … **But needed to beat hungary by a margin of 6 goals to progress to QFs** … > Is the statement in bold correct ? > … No, it’s not correct. the 6-0 game against Hungary (that part is correct) was the first game the Russians played in Group C (the other group members were Canada and France). In the end the Russians finished first (ahead of France due to a better goal difference) but even if they had only tied Hungary, they still would have gone on to the next round. In addition Russia didn’t even advance to the quarterfinals. They lost to Belgium (3:4 after extended time) in the round of 16. ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/3 "2009-11-24T14:30:14Z")
O.K . Thanks . ---
**Author:** ![footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9f8e36/32.png) [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/4 "2009-11-24T16:40:10Z")
A far more interesting story happened for the qualifiaction of EURO 1984 (european championships) where Spain needed to beat Malta with 11 goals difference to qualify instead of the Netherlands. At half time it was 3-1, final score 12-1… Let’s just say some eyebrows were raised. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/5 "2009-11-25T03:28:31Z")
Aren’t final games in round robin pool play now scheduled for the same day and time to avoid situations like this? – That is, for the 1984 scenario to’ve been possible, the Netherlands game must’ve been already over by the time Spain and Malta took the field, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/6 "2009-11-25T06:21:04Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > Aren’t final games in round robin pool play now scheduled for the same day and time to avoid situations like this? – That is, for the 1984 scenario to’ve been possible, the Netherlands game must’ve been already over by the time Spain and Malta took the field, yes? Spain’s destruction of Malta occurred in the qualifying rounds of Euro '84 rather than the finals. The fixture list had determined that Malta were to play in the final two matches of Qualifying Group 7. These were (1)away to the Netherlands on 17 December 1983, and (2) away to Spain four days later. According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1984_qualifying#Summary): > [@](#): > > In Group 7, The Netherlands thought they had done enough to qualify, given that their closest rivals Spain went into the very last match needing to beat Malta by eleven goals in order to qualify. And when Spain went in at half-time in Seville leading the Maltese minnows by a margin of only 3-1, the Dutch could have been forgiven for assuming they were home and dry. Spain, incredibly, then proceeded to score nine more goals in the second half, the last of them coming in the 86th minute from Juan Señor, to book an unlikely passage to the finals. UEFA has since changed its rules: **all teams now play their final game at the exact same time and date, so that none of the teams has an advantage.** Also, overall goal difference is now de-emphasized in the tie-breakers in favour of head-to-head results. My emphasis, but note that this cannot be correct. For example, the qualifying competition for Euro 2004 comprised ten groups of five teams each, therefore one team in each group necessarily completed its quota of fixtures in advance of the other four. See [Qualifying Group 2](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2004_qualifying#Group_2) as an example, in which Romania did not play in the final round of games. The same scenario occurred in the Euro 2008 qualifying competition, which featured six groups of 7 teams and one of 8 teams, and probably in other European Championship qualifying rounds since 1984 as well. However, in the European Championship and World Cup final stages, the groups always comprise four teams, so all of them can play their final games at the exact same time and date. In the World Cup, this system was implemented in 1986 following a disgraceful contest between [West Germany and Austria](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_FIFA_World_Cup#First_round) in the 1982 tournament, described hereunder: > [@](#): > > Group 2 saw one of the great World Cup upsets on the first day with the 2-1 victory of Algeria over reigning European Champion West Germany. This memorable game resulted in the controversial match between West Germany and Austria, their third and final match. As Algeria had already played their third match the day before, West Germany and Austria knew that a West German win by 1 or 2 goals would qualify them both, while a larger German victory would qualify Algeria over Austria, and a draw or an Austrian win would eliminate the Germans. The fourth team in the group, Chile, were eliminated regardless of the outcome. After 10 minutes of furious attack, West Germany succeeded in scoring through a goal by Horst Hrubesch. After the goal was scored, the two German-speaking teams went into an unspoken agreement and just kicked the ball around aimlessly for the rest of the match. Chants of “Fuera, fuera” (“Out, out”) were screamed by the appalled Spanish crowd, while angry Algerian supporters waved banknotes at the players. This sham performance was widely deplored, even by the German and Austrian fans who had hoped for a hot rematch of the 1978 FIFA World Cup match in which Austria had beaten West Germany. One German fan was so upset by his team’s display that he burned his German flag in disgust.[1] Algeria protested to FIFA, who ruled that the result be allowed to stand, but events led to FIFA introducing a revised qualification system at subsequent World Cups in which the final two games in each group were played simultaneously. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/7 "2009-11-25T07:40:55Z")
> [@Chez\_Guevara](#): > > … > > However, in the European Championship and World Cup final stages, the groups always comprise four teams, so all of them can play their final games at the exact same time and date. In the World Cup, this system was implemented in 1986 following a disgraceful contest between [West Germany and Austria](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_FIFA_World_Cup#First_round) in the 1982 tournament, described hereunder: I remember watching that game live on TV (I was in school and our teachers decided to watch the game instead of holding classes). After half an hour we were begging them to turn off the TV and hold class instead. It really was an embarrasing display of kicking the ball sideways as much as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/8 "2009-11-25T11:06:22Z")
Another example of suspected collusion was the infamous Argentina - Peru game in the second round of the 1978 World Cup Finals, which were held in, let’s see, oh yes, Argentina. The home team needed to beat Peru, a pretty decent team that year, by four clear goals. They actually won 6-0 with quite remarkable ease. > **[1978 FIFA World Cup | Second round](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_FIFA_World_Cup#Second_round)** > > In the all-European Group A, the Netherlands got off to a flying start by thrashing Austria 5–1, Johnny Rep scoring two of their goals. In a rematch of the 1974 final, the Dutch then drew 2–2 with West Germany, who had previously shared a goalless game with Italy. The Italians beat Austria 1–0, and so the Netherlands faced Italy in their last group game knowing that the winners would reach the final. Ernie Brandts scored an 18th-minute own goal to put Italy ahead at half-time, but he made up for ... ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/9 "2009-11-25T11:40:17Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Another example of suspected collusion was the infamous Argentina - Peru game in the second round of the 1978 World Cup Finals, which were held in, let’s see, oh yes, Argentina. The home team needed to beat Peru, a pretty decent team that year, by four clear goals. They actually won 6-0 with quite remarkable ease. > > [1978 FIFA World Cup - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_FIFA_World_Cup#Second_round) The whole '78 World Cup was a mess. The military Junta used the World Cup for propaganda much like Hitler used the '36 Olympics. The Dutch were intimidated before the final and Argentina only made it to the final because Peru let them win 6-0. The whole final started with some horrible gamesmanship from the Argentinians and the referee was horrible, so the whole match turned into a brutal game. I still wonder if the Dutch team would have made it back to the Netherlands alive if Rensenbrink had actually scored in extra time instead of hitting the post. At least Menotti (the Argentinian coach) refused to shake the president’s hand after the final. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/10 "2009-11-25T12:03:53Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Another example of suspected collusion was the infamous Argentina - Peru game in the second round of the 1978 World Cup Finals, which were held in, let’s see, oh yes, Argentina. The home team needed to beat Peru, a pretty decent team that year, by four clear goals. They actually won 6-0 with quite remarkable ease. > > [1978 FIFA World Cup - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_FIFA_World_Cup#Second_round) When is the world going to recognize our genious? Its either this or the “hand of god”. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/11 "2009-11-25T12:08:06Z")
> [@Mycroft\_Holmes](#): > > The whole '78 World Cup was a mess. The military Junta used the World Cup for propaganda much like Hitler used the '36 Olympics. The Dutch were intimidated before the final and Argentina only made it to the final because Peru let them win 6-0. The whole final started with some horrible gamesmanship from the Argentinians and the referee was horrible, so the whole match turned into a brutal game. I still wonder if the Dutch team would have made it back to the Netherlands alive if Rensenbrink had actually scored in extra time instead of hitting the post. > > At least Menotti (the Argentinian coach) refused to shake the president’s hand after the final. I agree with everything you said about the World Cup. It was a mess. But its never been proven that we bribed the peruvians and we actually won the match against the dutch. I will also add that the dutch tam would have made it back alive had they won. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/12 "2009-11-25T12:43:04Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > I will also add that the dutch tam would have made it back alive had they won. I know. I was exaggerating. I think the Uruguyans in 1950 were in much more danger. I would not want to face over 200.000 angry and disappointed Brazilians. It also seems that Argentinian-Dutch relations have gotten better ever since “Prins Pils” got married to Maxima Zorreguieta. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/13 "2009-11-25T12:45:29Z")
I almost wish I could remember the 78 World Cup now. Unfortunately, as I was born in mid 74 the first World Cup I remember is Spain 82. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/14 "2009-11-25T13:00:10Z")
Was it '74 or '78 where they had that bizarre practice of referees interrupting play at random points for a minute’s silence for some slightly unsavoury world leader who had just died? Can’t remember who the statesman or -woman in question was, but it made you wonder who was influencing FIFA in those days. And the way the players, officials and crowd just obediently went along with it! ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/15 "2009-11-25T13:07:26Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > I agree with everything you said about the World Cup. It was a mess. > But its never been proven that we bribed the peruvians and we actually won the match against the dutch. I will also add that the dutch tam would have made it back alive had they won. I actually agree that Argentina were a very good team that year, and I have no idea if bribery was really involved against Peru. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/16 "2009-11-25T14:56:39Z")
Getting back to the OP, it should be noted that, even now in qualifying groups for Finals tournaments, they don’t hold the matches at the same time. In European qualifying for the 2010 World Cup, some of the groups included teams from all across Europe, and it would be very difficult to run the games simultaneously and still maximize profit. So they all played on the same day, but they didn’t play at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/17 "2009-11-25T16:23:27Z")
> [@](#): > > After the goal was scored, the two German-speaking teams went into an unspoken agreement and just kicked the ball around aimlessly for the rest of the match. Why were the fans upset? It sounds like a typical soccer game to me. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/18 "2009-11-25T20:49:31Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Why were the fans upset? It sounds like a typical soccer game to me. :rolleyes: Or to put it another way, if it was so bad that the SOCCER fans thought that’s what they were doing, it must have been godawful!!! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/19 "2009-11-25T21:02:00Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > When is the world going to recognize our genious? Its either this or the “hand of god”. Well, if you could win something without the usual controversy, then I think the world might well recognize your genius. But let’s see it first. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761/20 "2009-11-25T22:04:28Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > :rolleyes: 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1986-world-cup-question/518761.md?page=2)