# 1stChristian thinks that Islam has declared war on the west. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225 "2003-12-27T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/1 "2003-12-27T04:41:41Z")
He said it twice in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4399103#post4399103) thread. > [@](#): > > - the war Islam declared on the West > [@](#): > > Islam declared war on the West and you are invited to debate on it. If you read the whole thread you’ll see that it contains a number of othet idiotic statements (such as the assertion that non-democratic countries don’t have a right to self-defense and a seeming implication that the US has a “duty” to invade them) but the double assertion about Islam declaring war on the west is one that I felt I could not adequately address in GD. So… **1stChristian** … Go fuck yourself, you stupid shit. It took you a dozen posts to prove that you’re a fucking moron and a bigot. Hopefully you’ll go back to school soon (Junior College, I’m guessing?) and we’ll be spared any more of your dumbass, imflammatory assertions, not to mention your garbled and sophomoric OPs. :wally (Pssst…by the way…there are Muslims on this board. You may want to apologize. You may also be interested to know that there are Muslims in the US miltary…apologize double to them) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/2 "2003-12-27T05:04:16Z")
Not the first we’ve heard this, won’t be the last. How very dreary. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/3 "2003-12-27T05:15:40Z")
I say this guy doesn´t make it till next year. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/4 "2003-12-27T05:26:00Z")
Nope, you’re wrong, Diogenes. Osama said “Allah”, Osama hates the west. Thus Islam has declared war on the west. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/5 "2003-12-27T06:33:53Z")
The former Cat Stevens has declared war on us? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/6 "2003-12-27T06:42:32Z")
Dear **1stChristian** : Don’t you have the q’s pls? lol!!! Someone set us up the bomb!!! All your bases are belong to us! b/c heh… lol!!! _sigh_ Lord how I hate poor internet speak. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/7 "2003-12-27T06:47:23Z")
You know, this is the first corporate war depicted in these cyberpunk novels years ago: A person with significant finances from companies he owns and operates declares war against the nation-state superpowers. And Osama already defeated one of the superpowers. More the reason to shut Osama down: we don’t want to give Bill Gates, Warrren Buffett or Rupert Murdock or anyone ideas that Osama’s plans might work. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/8 "2003-12-27T07:32:29Z")
And he’s not even the first Christian, either. Pish posh. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/9 "2003-12-27T08:27:10Z")
I don’t think **1stChristian** is a sophomore, or a Christian either, for that matter. His email address turns up a bunch of posts on Astrology websites, amongst other things: [http://www.google.com.au/search?q=cache:MnGnNViwjccJ:www.rbookshop.com/unusual\_subjects/a/Astrology/The\_American\_Ephemeris\_2001\_2010\_0935127518.htm](http://www.google.com.au/search?q=cache:MnGnNViwjccJ:www.rbookshop.com/unusual_subjects/a/Astrology/The_American_Ephemeris_2001_2010_0935127518.htm) > [@](#): > > Why is this book out of stock? You’re right! Because it is so good! And why is it so good? Because it’s so informative, well editted and specialized. No, I’m not the advertising publisher, I’m only a Proffessional Astrologer expertizing in Horary Astrology. When I make a chart, I don’t go to the blue-cover book, I go to the red-one, this book. I do this, because, here, I can find the last Moon’s aspect before it leaves the Sign it’s in and this is a must for Horary Astr. This last aspect is not just any aspect, it’s the last “major” aspect and this is also a must for Hor. Astr. It has daily data, which is invaluable. I can go on like this but I won’t do it, lest I won’t be a nuissance. The book is written with easy-to-read fonts, easy-to-follow data-blocks and easy-to-follow data-details on heavy-duty paper. The pre-explanations and the adjacent tables are of great help, giving a ready-at-hand much needed auxilliary data. So, I have the two books, always: the red one and the blue one. The blue, for the all the Nativity Astrology needs and the red, for the Horary, Electional and Medicinal Astrology. I highly recommend it. to follow page-editting > > The American Ephemeris 2001-2010 > Available from Amazon > Price: $12.95 > Updated on 5-12-2003. [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-reviews/-/APBJGPWY6YXU7/1/ref%3Dcm\_cr\_auth/002-3330455-8836006/002-7967663-7200003](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-reviews/-/APBJGPWY6YXU7/1/ref%3Dcm%5Fcr%5Fauth/002-3330455-8836006/002-7967663-7200003) > [@](#): > > Rage & Uproar, Positively provocative January 25, 2000 > How else can you describe a book saying - and proving - that Jesus: --was a living man, --got married, --had children, --lived the cross (if it was he, who got crucified; see the Gnostics, for a substitute), --died many years after, --buried, somewhere (some, not LG, say, in Srinagar, INDIA)? How else can you describe a book, saying - and proving - that Mary Magdalene: --was a priestess, --a high-ranking one, --not a whore, --Jesus’ lawful wife, --mother of JC’s children, --cult-subject on her own? How else can you describe a book saying and proving, that Joseph of Arimathea was a close relative of theirs, settled in Scotland - where direct descendants of Moses (through his daughter, Scota), founded a kingdom, after roaming Spain and Ireland - and after a few generations, his offsprings and JC’s, maried and so, there is a direct bloodline from JC? How else can you describe a book saying - and proving - that King Arthur was a real living creature and he was a member of this bloodline? How else can you describe a book taking this bloodline from the Habsburbs’ provinces and crown and invest it in the Stuarts’? All this and much, much more, is written in a concise language, despite the unavoidable wealth of details and without blunt partisanship, though, being a Prior of the S. Columba church, Mr. Gardner could well say that he is writing a book advancing his aims. The book is provocative, because, along with the many books in the market, on the subjects of JC, Exodus, the Pyramids, the Holy Grail and the like, which, all, adress, from various points of view, the same fundamental questions of our origins, it shutters the very foundations of the Christianity, in general, and the Catholic Church, in particular. The Judeo-Christian culture is shown in a whole different light, which catapults it in a totally different time/place frame and so, sequestrates this ‘holy cow’ from the hands of the rabbinical/ecclesiastical establishment. This book is to be seen, versus the other books on the same subject, as the ultimative one, to my mind. A very well-written, thoroughly researched book, it poses two problems: what is the immediate consequence of this truth to the ordinary people and what is the role that the Jews should play, now, being the origin of it, all? Also, what has to be the attitude of the Western elite to the Jews, knowing they are their forefathers? All said, **I strongly recommend this highly reliable and informative piece of history writting.** My vote is for “complete fruitcake”. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/10 "2003-12-27T09:02:57Z")
I don’t usually involve myself in “political debates”, because I don’t feel like I know enough to sound intelligent on these matters. Now through **1stChristian…** , I’ve found that there is no intelligence required. **DtC** has already called said much of what I would want to say and does it so much more colorfully than I can. So, everything he said and; The sheer, complete ignorance and stupidity that makes **1stChristian** feel he has the qualifications to decide what form of government is not only superior, but right for a country he knows very little about, amazes me. I could be wrong though. **1st Christian** , how long did you live over there? Are you sure all the women want to be like us? Spreading “the word” of democracy by bombing and destroying their country seems a little bit of an “overkill”. You **1stChristian** have been talking bad about the Muslims and their faith. By your standards, since you see them talking about us as agression, they have every right to come bomb us now. So they talk bad about us. A lot of people from other countries don’t like us. Should they bomb us? If I and a group of my “fundie friends” (I am not a fundie), went down to Mexico and bombed their capitol, would it be acceptable for Mexico to declare war on the U.S. or would the fact that we acted without government support matter? I voted for Bush, to my great shame; mostly because he was pro-life. I gotta tell you, he doesn’t look so pro-life to me anymore. If he had said we needed to bomb Iran because Saddam was evil and must be stopped, I wouldn’t agree; but I wouldn’t be so disgusted at his deceit. So **1stChristian** , get your head out of your ass and look around. We are not the ideal role model for integrity, truth and justice. Trying to physically force another country to have a democracy is the ultimate in irony. I think complete fruitcake is too generous. There’s nothing complete about this guy. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/11 "2003-12-27T09:07:26Z")
Whoops, I mean Iraq. I don’t want to give GWB or **1stChristian** any new ideas.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/12 "2003-12-27T09:24:29Z")
Maybe I should have explained myself a bit better. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IWLN \* > **The sheer, complete ignorance and stupidity that makes 1stChristian feel he has the qualifications to decide what form of government is not only superior, but right for a country he knows very little about, amazes me. I could be wrong though. 1st Christian, how long did you live over there?** He lives in there right now. See the address above. Hint: it’s not in the U.S. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IWLN \* > **By your standards, since you see them talking about us as agression, they have every right to come bomb us now. So they talk bad about us. A lot of people from other countries don’t like us. Should they bomb us?** **1stChristian** ’s idea of “us” probably isn’t the same as yours. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by IWLN \* > \*\* If I and a group of my “fundie friends” (I am not a fundie)…_\* If you are implying that **1stChritian** _is_ some kind of fundie, you’re probably correct. If you mean “fundamentalist Christian”, then I think you’re wrong. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IWLN \* > **If he had said we needed to bomb Iran because Saddam was evil and must be stopped, I wouldn’t agree; but I wouldn’t be so disgusted at his deceit.** You might not, but _I_ would. 😉 (On preview, I see that you pre-emptively killed my joke. :)) ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/13 "2003-12-27T10:32:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > **He lives in there right now.** Middle east, not Iraq specifically. Sorry. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/14 "2003-12-27T10:49:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*Middle east, not Iraq specifically. Sorry. :smack: \*\* Sorry, I missed that. Although living in Israel might explain more of his politics than say Ohio would. Just doesn’t give him the right to explain ours incorrectly. I noticed the Astrology part and let my sneering bias cloud my vision. I can divine by where the planets were when he was born that his house is not stable.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/15 "2003-12-27T11:02:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cheddarsnax \* > \*\*Nope, you’re wrong, Diogenes. Osama said “Allah”, Osama hates the west. Thus Islam has declared war on the west. > > Right? \*\* I’m afraid not. _Tennis is a sport. Tennis uses a net. Thus all sports use a net._ That’s an invalid argument. Reverse the last two, and it’s valid. (But still unsound.) ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/16 "2003-12-27T11:11:05Z")
Turn your sarcasm detector on, **Lib**. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/17 "2003-12-27T11:37:29Z")
Well, the **1stChristian** username is still a bit of a mystery, but he’s not pretending to be a Christian fundie anymore: [Israel: When the best of the best say NO](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4400049#post4400049) > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by 1stChristian_ > \*\*Well, threemae, I lived in Israel until two yrs ago and fought actively there in 3 wars, the 67, the 73 and the 82 ones. I was in Sinai, in the Golan heights, in Gaza and in the West Bank. My wife was in the 67 war front as an active soldier, my son was in the army, all my fam was in the army and fought in all of the wars there, including our Independence War, in 48. > (I live here, b/c of some special circumstances; english is not my native lang.) > I will spare you narative descriptions of what shape did we find our, luckily, few, dead soldiers on the Syrian front in the 73 war, on the Golan Heights. I will spare you what a young arab did to a still living Israeli soldier after they kidnapped him a few yrs ago and how the crowd cheered in front of the Palestinian police station in which he was linched while still living. An Italian journalist who videotaped and broadcasted it, was discredited by the Palestininas authorities, then. I leave it to you to guess why. > > Yes, I beg your pardon, I should precede the word ‘extremists’ in front of the Islam word, but, try to remember the Palestinians dancing in the streets of Brooklyn, IMMEDIATELY after 9/11, giving candies to each other (it was recorded on video and broadcasted, worldwide) and you’ll see what I mean. They were not hard core al-Qaeda members, they just displayed their, so sorry to say it, character. They live in this country but, still, they spit in the well from which they drink and slap the hand which gives them bread. > > Finally, the q of where should the Jews go. Can you vouch for us that another holocaust will not happen? I tell you as a Jewish individual, that I do not take it out of consideration, never and nowhere. B/c of this I have only and only one place, the old homeland of mine, this is the only valid argument I can make to argumentate the raison d’etre of being there. Sorry for the inconvenience, but after what Europe did to “me” during almost two thou yrs, culminating in the slaughter in every conceivable shape and manner of 7.000.000 men, women and children Jews by the Germans in Europe, in the civilized 20th cent, I would like to believe that I’m not paranoidic about it. Others took an active part in it, too, don’t fool yourself it was not so. > > I really can not say that what I do is 100% right, but I do know that it saves our lives, in the end, no matter how hard it is, and this makes it right. The Palestinians can go to 21 countries, if they only would want to. I know, it’s hard, but not impossible. I? I don’t have a corner of mine in the whole wide world, except this tiny and inconspicuous piece of land. So there I go and raise my children and achieve in a very short time, things which other nations only dream about, even now. > We, the Israelis, have an indestructible and invincible spirit by default. We just don’t have any other choice. So we have Nobel prizes, satelites in the sky, an army to be proud of (not in a militaristic way, believe me), a forefront technology, science, culture and society infrastructure. We absorbed, more or less successfully, millions of other Jews in less that 50 yrs and if not for Israel, the Jews worldwide would have been muredered again en-masse, of this we are sure. > This is the reason we are there, w/o any religious arguments. > > * * * > > – Love - Always & All Ways --\*\* A couple of points stand out there. - the claim to have been living there until two years ago, despite the address given above which has “Updated on 5-12-2003” stuck on it. That could be a mistake, though. - the palestinians dancing on the streets in Brooklyn claim. Hasn’t that been debunked? (I admit I can’t remember the details of all that at the moment). ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/18 "2003-12-27T11:58:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*- the palestinians dancing on the streets in Brooklyn claim. Hasn’t that been debunked? (I admit I can’t remember the details of all that at the moment). \*\* There were certainly celebrating Palestinians over [in Isreal/the West Bank.](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.htm) It’s no stretch to believe that some celebrated over here as well. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/19 "2003-12-27T12:29:46Z")
The video in question was shot in Jerusalem. But **Brutus** , you have to be a damn fool to believe that one would have been able to go out in traditional Muslim attire on September 11, 2001, _in Brooklyn, NYC_, to express one’s grattitude for the attack on the Twin Towers. First off, no one would have _survived_ such an attempt, and secondly, it would have been documented on film. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225/20 "2003-12-27T12:32:26Z")
There are some claims of Israelis, or people who seemed Israeli, celebrating the WTC destruction on September 11th. Not sure if there’s any truth to those, however, and I’m not saying there is any. And as a New Yorker I rather agree with **Coldfire** ’s assessment of what would’ve happened. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1stchristian-thinks-that-islam-has-declared-war-on-the-west/221225.md?page=2)