# 2 Superman questions
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [June 10, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623 "2013-06-10T14:28:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/1 "2013-06-10T14:28:03Z")
1. Was it the first Superman movie that established the idea that the Superman’s emblem was a Kryptonian symbol, and not an “S”?
2. When did superheroes start addressing each other by their real names? During the Saturday morning Superfriends era Superman would never call Batman Bruce, but on Justice League (and Unlimited) it happens frequently.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/2 "2013-06-10T14:29:47Z")
1. IIRC, yes it was.
2. Frank Miller, I think. I don’t recall it before _The Dark Knight_, but I’ve been wrong before.
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### Author:  [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/3 "2013-06-10T14:33:06Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#):
>
> 1. Was it the first Superman movie that established the idea that the Superman’s emblem was a Kryptonian symbol, and not an “S”?
>
> 2. When did superheroes start addressing each other by their real names? During the Saturday morning Superfriends era Superman would never call Batman Bruce, but on Justice League (and Unlimited) it happens frequently.
Not sure about #1. The JLA in the Comics started calling each other by their real names about 2 years from their inception. There was a story (after the fact) where the fact that they didn’t know who each other was in civilian life almost caused them to fail, and they decided they could all trust each other.
Secret identities in Marvel are less a big deal than at DC. The 2nd group of Avengers all knew each others identities pretty soon, as most of them lived together at the Avengers HQ; ditto the X-Men. Others were revealed to the group(s) over time.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/4 "2013-06-10T14:36:24Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#):
>
> Secret identities in Marvel are less a big deal than at DC. The 2nd group of Avengers all knew each others identities pretty soon
At which point Hank Pym rejoined the Avengers by – revealing his secret identity to 'em.
[QUOTE=silenus]
2) Frank Miller, I think. I don’t recall it before The Dark Knight, but I’ve been wrong before.
[/QUOTE]
Alan Moore was doing this before Miller did it in DKR – in _For The Man Who Has Everything_, for example.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/5 "2013-06-10T14:37:16Z")
I sit corrected!
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### Author:  [@Slade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slade)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/6 "2013-06-10T14:52:05Z")
Posted in error - sorry
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/7 "2013-06-10T15:26:34Z")
Superman and Batman found out each others’ identities in 1954 when they started pairing in World’s Finest Comics. (Previously they had both been featured, but in separate stories.) After that, DC ran endless variations of the plot that one of them would pretend to be the other to protect their secret. I remember them referring to each other by first names in private.
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### Author:  [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/8 "2013-06-10T15:30:14Z")
The Flash and Green Lantern paired up, became friends and learned each other’s ID’s in their own magazines before the full JLA reveal as well.
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### Author:  [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/9 "2013-06-10T15:37:58Z")
There’s a great scene in one of the animated Justice League serials where the JLA is on the run from some alien invaders. They break into a closed department store to get away from some pursuers. Batman then says they’ll have to ditch the costumes and blend in as civilians if they want to get away. The Flash then protests:
**Flash** : “but then we’ll give away our secret identities”
**Batman (pointing at The Flash)**: “Barry West”.
**Batman (pointing at Green Lantern)**: “Hal Jordan”
**Batman (pointing at Superman)**: “Clark Kent”
_Batman removes his cowl_
**Batman (pointing at self)**: “Bruce Wayne. Any other objections?”
EDIT: Ok, I totally messed up the quote, but here’s a link to the scene in question for atonement: [Clark Kent, Wally West, Bruce Wayne - Batman reveals Identities - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kuk8WvVDVe4)
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/10 "2013-06-10T15:42:44Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#):
>
> 1. Was it the first Superman movie that established the idea that the Superman’s emblem was a Kryptonian symbol, and not an “S”?
I don’t think so. I remember it was established in the 60s that it was a Kryptonian symbol for the same sound as “S.”
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### Author:  [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/11 "2013-06-10T15:45:23Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> Superman and Batman found out each others’ identities in 1954 when they started pairing in World’s Finest Comics. (Previously they had both been featured, but in separate stories.) After that, DC ran endless variations of the plot that one of them would pretend to be the other to protect their secret. I remember them referring to each other by first names in private.
One version of their first meeting sticks in my mind due to the craziness of it. In the story, Bruce and Clark were sharing a cabin on a tranAtlantic voyage. Something happened which required hero work. They were both changing into their costumes in the dark when a flash of light revealed them to each other. It was never explained why Superman didn’t just fly to Europe or why a rich guy like Bruce had to share a cabin.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/12 "2013-06-10T16:09:24Z")
They merged Barry Allen and Wally West into Barry West?
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/13 "2013-06-10T16:20:02Z")
The original Superman #132 (October 1959) shows an “imaginary” story about Krypton avoiding its doom and Kal-El growing to adulthood. He eventually becomes a member of the heroic “spacemen” (essentially astronaut-firemen-cops) that protect and defend Krypton while flying rockets and such. He (and only he, strangely) wears a uniform virtually identical to the Superman costume, with the “S” standing for “spacemen” - yes, Kryptonese is identical to English in that regard, although later in the story, a Kryptonese sign has to be translated by Kal-El for Lois Lane (who in this story has stowed away on a rocket launched from Earth and landing on Krypton after they overshot the moon) because the Kryptonian text consists mostly of squares and triangles and | shapes, but even though Kal-El’s translation has three uses of “S” in it, there’s no “S” on the sign.
At the end of the story, Kal-El gets superpowers anyway and picks a names for himself “out of thin air… Superman!”
It’s not a great story, but it the earliest I can think of that has Superman wearing the familiar costume on Krypton where the symbol actually _originates_ on Krypton. There are a few others stories that have him travelling backward in time (including from _Superman_ #123 from a year before and _Superman_ #141 from a year later - I gather Krypton stories were an easy sell back then), but in those cases he’s just some guy who shows up one day wearing an odd suit.
As for superheroes addressing each other by name, one of the nicest moments I know of is in _DC Comics Presents_ #30 (February 1981). Black Canary visits the Fortress of Solitude.
Canary: Thanks for letting me in, Superman. Or do you prefer Kal?
Superman: I’d rather it be Clark.
Just a brief moment, but nicely humanizing.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/14 "2013-06-10T16:24:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> They merged Barry Allen and Wally West into Barry West?
And the Green Lantern in those cartoons was Hal Jordan?
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### Author:  [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/15 "2013-06-10T16:58:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> And the Green Lantern in those cartoons was Hal Jordan?
Guys, I said I messed it up. It was just Wally West, and the GL was black, and the only black one was Hal Jordan, no?
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/16 "2013-06-10T16:59:43Z")
Hal Jordan is white. John Stewart is black.
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### Author:  [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/17 "2013-06-10T17:36:57Z")
Then who’s that guy on comedy central?
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### Author:  [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/18 "2013-06-10T17:44:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> Hal Jordan is white. John Stewart is black.
Well, I was wrong.
[QUOTE=Drunky Smurf]
Then who’s that guy on comedy central?
[/QUOTE]
Jon Stewart, no H
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/19 "2013-06-10T17:55:59Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#):
>
> Then who’s that guy on comedy central?
A coincidence that was nicely lampshaded in one of the Justice League cartoons…the scene is looking out one of the windows on the satellite, the “camera” following an asteroid/meteor across the screen. You then see the John Stewart GL from the back, as he’s looking out the window, and he says, “This has been your moment of zen.”
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-superman-questions/660623/20 "2013-06-10T21:20:43Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> 1. IIRC, yes it was.
>
> 2. Frank Miller, I think. I don’t recall it before _The Dark Knight_, but I’ve been wrong before.
I recall the JLA & Avengers both doing that, in private, way back in the 70s & early/mid 80s. It wasn’t a constant thing, of course, but the JLA had several groups of particular friends during that time period. Flash, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, and Black Canary always called one another Barry, Hall, Ollie, and Dinah unless they were in public. Superman, Batman, & Wonder Woman did likewise. Most of the long-stay Avengers called Captain America Steve. And of course everyone’s on a first-name basis with Thor. 😃
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