# 2 year old raped and murdered **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 14, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219 "2007-02-14T17:10:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/1 "2007-02-14T17:10:47Z")
The 21 year old uncle of a Leeds (UK) toddler has been charged with raping and murdering this innocent child. TWO YEARS OLD! What the fuck is the matter with the world and where is God when all this is going on. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/2 "2007-02-14T17:27:18Z")
Er . . . I hesitate to ask, but how is raping a two year old _physically_ possible? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/3 "2007-02-14T17:33:07Z")
Eek. Dont’ ask questions, **Lissa** , you might find out the answer. There’re times when ignorance truly is bliss. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/4 "2007-02-14T17:34:23Z")
**chowder** do you have a link to an online article about this? ☹ I hope the bastard rots in prison, never to see the light of day or know a moment’s peace or joy again! **Lissa**?! Your husband works in a prison. Surely there are prisoners whose crimes were raping a baby under a year old? Sadly, this is a crime that has happened more than once. Yes, it can seriously injure or kill the infant/toddler to do that to them. Makes me ill to think of it. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/5 "2007-02-14T17:37:58Z")
It is reported that a PM examination showed that she died from “Compression to the neck” She was found dead lying in a pool of her own blood ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/6 "2007-02-14T17:40:01Z")
Sorry **Zabali** no link but it’s reported in various UK newspapers and also on UK TV ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/7 "2007-02-14T17:44:49Z")
Ok, a search of the BBC news site found [this](http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?tab=av&q=two%20year%20old%20&recipe=all&scope=all&edition=i) page with some videos on it. It looks like there are four videos touching on this case. _steels self_ Off to watch them. Poor child… ☹ ETA: Ok, once I heard her name (Casey Mullen) I did a search and came up with a [page](http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?q=Casey+Mullen&scope=all&edition=i&tab=all&recipe=all) of text articles on this murder. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/8 "2007-02-14T17:45:47Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] **Lissa**?! Your husband works in a prison. Surely there are prisoners whose crimes were raping a baby under a year old? Sadly, this is a crime that has happened more than once. Yes, it can seriously injure or kill the infant/toddler to do that to them. Makes me ill to think of it. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I’m sure he does have inmates incarcerated for that crime, but I’ve never asked him about the ages of the victims or what actually\* happened\* to them. I’ve always assumed that “rape” in these situations would involve penetration of a digit or foreign object, not of the rapist’s penis. That didn’t seem to be physically possible. (Not that I want to put too much thought into it, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/9 "2007-02-14T17:51:19Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] \I’ve always assumed that “rape” in these situations would involve penetration of a digit or foreign object, not of the rapist’s penis. That didn’t seem to be physically possible. (Not that I want to put too much thought into it, anyway.) [/QUOTE] _comfort_ It isn’t a pleasant realization, is it? ☹ Yes, there are people in this world that are _ **that** _ sick. They are the reason I cannot say I am completely against the death penalty. Them, I’d execute and have no compunctions in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/10 "2007-02-14T18:13:13Z")
Aha! Here’s an [article](http://icessex.icnetwork.co.uk/news/tm_headline=uncle-charged-with-toddler-s-murder&method=full&objectid=18622683&siteid=106484-name_page.html) giving the detail that he’s been charged. He’ll appear before the magistrates on Thursday. Good! ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/11 "2007-02-14T18:19:40Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] That didn’t seem to be physically possible. [/QUOTE] Oh, it is. It is. If you don’t care how much damage you do, yeah, you can force a penis into an infant’s vagina or rectum, the same way you could force a section of broomstick or a dildo or a banana. It’ll rip quite a bit, but it’ll go in there. ☹ From 2001: [“Infant rape crisis jolts South Africa.”](http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/africa/12/10/infant.rape) > [@](#): > > …A 5-month-old girl was the latest victim. Two male suspects – one 17, the other 24 – were charged with the crime. > > After emergency surgery, the child was expected to live. Just sticking their fingers into her wouldn’t necessitate emergency surgery. And they weren’t using a dildo or a cucumber because they believed that having sex with a virgin would cure or prevent AIDS. Now aren’t you glad you know. ☹ Castration for the uncle in the case under discussion would be my fervent wish. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/12 "2007-02-14T18:24:36Z")
There is no doubt that if found guilty this man will go to prison for “life” Which in effect means he’ll be out in about 15-20 years, maybe less. he’ll be out and aged about 40ish and ready to get on with his life…all fucking wrong! Whilst in prison he’ll be placed in a secure wing to prevent the other inmates from getting at him. He’ll get all the inside stuff like TV, newspapers, fairly decent food and he’ll even get paid! ALL FUCKING WRONG ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/13 "2007-02-14T18:32:34Z")
I thought judges could use some discretion to mark a prisoner’s record “Do Not Release”? I know in an Australian murder case this happened. The judge saw to it that the parole board would not be inclined to let him out, ever. Can’t the same be done for him? :eek: ☹ I would think that it could be seen as “Society’s Best Interest” to keep him incarcerated until he dies! ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/14 "2007-02-14T18:53:20Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] I thought judges could use some discretion to mark a prisoner’s record “Do Not Release”? [/QUOTE] No, I don’t believe so. The recent trend toward “flat sentencing” has removed a lot of judicial discretion. Whereas a judge used to be able to give a wide span (10 to 25 years, say) and then leave whether he was released up to the parole boards, flat sentencing has eliminated that. A person is sentenced to a certain number of years and is released thereafter, often with no sort of post-release control. (Sex offenders, of course, have to register-- I’m speaking of parole officers.) ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/15 "2007-02-14T18:56:18Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] (Sex offenders, of course, have to register-- I’m speaking of parole officers.) [/QUOTE] You know this because . . . ? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/16 "2007-02-14T19:01:20Z")
I know the estate - Gipton - quite well, I used to live in the neighbouring estate Seacroft. Both are absolutely notorious, with many of the former residents now being current residents of prisons. Unemployment is extremely high, even though nationally it is low, and having lived among these folk, the reason is very simple, they are both lazy and greedy. That said, this individual is in for an extremely hard time, nonces are not liked, and I would be surprised is a contract was not taken out on this ‘person’. One or two of the cons in my workshop are aware of the family, there will certainly be several others in this prison who know the perp well. Gipton is something of a dumping ground, when they try to clean up one estate, this is often one of the places they dump the human detritus. > **[Gipton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gipton)** > > Gipton is a suburb of east Leeds, West Yorkshire, England, between the A58 to the north and the A64 to the south. > It is in the Gipton and Harehills ward of Leeds City Council and the Leeds East parliamentary constituency. The separate area and woodland of Gipton Wood is in Oakwood, north of Harehills and part of the Roundhay ward. Gipton’s residents are known as Giptonites. > The name of Gipton comes from Old English, and is first attested in the Domesday Book of 1086 in the forms Chipetun, C... > **[BBC NEWS | UK | England | West Yorkshire | Cabbies banned from 'no go' areas](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshire/6267337.stm)** > > A Leeds taxi firm tells its drivers to stay out of part of the city following a spate of attacks. > **[BBC NEWS | England | West Yorkshire | More attacks on fire crews](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshire/3119054.stm)** > > Firefighters in West Yorkshire vow to continue doing their job despite 45 attacks on crews in the past six months. Here’s something from the Chav towns message board, > **[International Air Freight - Chavtowns.co.uk](https://www.chavtowns.co.uk)** > > Welcome to our premier platform dedicated to International Air Freight solutions. Whether you're shipping goods for trade, moving personal belongings across borders, or managing a complex logistics operation, our comprehensive international air... The last post pretty much sums up Gipton, can’t punctuate, and no grasp if the subtleties of English language, unable to express itself effectively, its everything that Gipton residents aspire to, and to be honest, its rather more literate than a significant proportion of the estate. The reason the estate is deprived, is because anyone who has any sense move out as soon as they get a job, the remainder are the lazy bloodsucking louts and leeches who frankly deserve to live in the poverty they work so hard to cultivate. They are not even intelligent enough to commit crime very well, its not like its gang warfare and drug money, its just a shitty place to be, full of shitty individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/17 "2007-02-14T19:05:57Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] No, I don’t believe so. The recent trend toward “flat sentencing” has removed a lot of judicial discretion. Whereas a judge used to be able to give a wide span (10 to 25 years, say) and then leave whether he was released up to the parole boards, flat sentencing has eliminated that. A person is sentenced to a certain number of years and is released thereafter, often with no sort of post-release control. (Sex offenders, of course, have to register-- I’m speaking of parole officers.) [/QUOTE] You’re speaking of American prison systems, not the U.K. There might be a difference, given the events I outlined in Australia. Australia’s prison system is closer to the U.K.'s prison system than ours is. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/18 "2007-02-14T19:30:42Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] You know this because . . . ? [/QUOTE] [Here’s](http://www.justicepolicy.org/redesign/news/news040903new-parole.html) an article regarding Ohio’s flat-time sentencing laws. [This one](http://www.cga.ct.gov/pri/archives/2000fireportchap1.htm) is about “truth in sentencing” laws in Connecticut. (“Truth in sentencing” and “flat time” are two different concepts, but both are relevant to this issue.) The latter explains how the parole boards are being phased out: > [@](#): > > The role of the parole board, implicit in an indeterminate sentencing structure, was abolished under the new sentencing framework. Under a determinate sentence, there was no longer a need for a discretionary parole release. However, the parole board maintained its discretionary release authority for offenders serving indeterminate sentences – those convicted and sentenced to crimes committed prior to July 1981. This [page](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/tssp.pdf) (PDF) has great information and statistics on state sentencing laws: > [@](#): > > Fourteen States have abolished early release by discretion of a parole board for all offenders. Seven States abolished parole board release within > the last 10 years. Eight States abolished parole board release during the same year a truth-in-sentencing law was passed (Arizona, Delaware, > Kansas, Mississippi, Ohio, Virginia, Washington, and Wisconsin). Parole boards still have discretion over inmates who were sentenced for crimes committed prior to the effective date of the law that eliminated parole board release. There are still some forms of post-release control, but as I understand, it is only for certain crimes and if the PRC was part of the original sentencing. (Though I could be wrong about this.) [This](http://www.ussc.gov/r_congress/MANMIN.PDF) is an excellent paper explaining the history and implimentation of “mandatory minimums.” As for sex offender registration, you can search state by state [here.](http://www.ncsby.org/pages/registry.htm) ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/19 "2007-02-14T19:31:38Z")
In the UK, a serious offender who is awarded a life sentence will have their minimum term set at trial. This will probably attract something in the order of a 20 year minimum, however this could be far more depending upon the previous behaviour of the individual. There is an extremely high liklehood that this person will not be released at their minimum, many life sentenced prisoners are not, it depends upon their behaviour in prison, and the courses they attend. Once released, this person will have to report to probation staff for the rest of his existance, any breaches effectively means several more year back inside. A breach of licence can be something as simple as being late for an appointment, or perhaps being caught in a relatively minor offence such as drving without a car licence. I doubt this pondlife will be in circulation within 25 years, if he actually survives prison at all. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219/20 "2007-02-14T19:31:57Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] You’re speaking of American prison systems, not the U.K. There might be a difference, given the events I outlined in Australia. Australia’s prison system is closer to the U.K.'s prison system than ours is. [/QUOTE] You’re quite right. I know nothing about the UK or Austrailia’s prison systems. I apologize if anyone was confused. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2-year-old-raped-and-murdered/392219.md?page=2)