Oh, I agree that is a silly argument. Whatever the root cause ( useful to understand to help ameliorate or eliminate it ), in that regard terrorism is terrorism - the mere fact that it happens is enough to condemn it.
- Tamerlane
Hamas will cease to function when …
A. The total destruction of Israel is complete.
B. The total destruction of Hamas is complete.
So how do we go about option B?
No, not everybody does. Good thing, too. A far more effective way of neutralizing terrorists is to kill them.
I have no problem with that at all.
But it is only one part of the battle. You also have to figure out how to neutralize recruitment. The deterrence of being killed isn’t always sufficient and terrorists can be be difficult to weed out, especially in any half-livable civil society, before they do damage. Always better to starve them out on both ends, by both eliminating active terrorists as the rabid animals they are and erode their base of support so they can’t replenish their number.
- Tamerlane
Yes, eroding the base of their support is key, they question is how?
You want to know what I see it as?
It’s like siblings fighting.
A parent needs to step in. As long as both sides are left to do what they will. It will continue.
I have no idea who the “parent” should be, but someone needs to grab both sides by the scruff of the neck and shake them good.
Let’s go find 20 members of Hamas, and blow THEM up…
We can’t even just offer a place to stay for people who want the terrorists to stop, either. We can’t just set up huge shelters for those who want to be dissassociated with Hamas, because such shelters would become targets for Hamas.
When a group says that they want nothing more than the utter destruction of another, how do you react? What possible REASONABLE reaction could you have other than the condemnation of the genocidal group? Turning away would be just a few steps below actively supporting the terrorism.
Appoint Mahmoud Abbas prime minister of Israel and the occupied territories with a coalition government that would include representives of the Palestinians. That way he could employ the resources of the Israeli army to full effect while negotiating within cabinet the terms by which the two peoples could live together.
When Canada was faced with terrorism in the early seventies by the FLQ, (a French-Canadian organization employing violence to force a separate state for French-Canadians) our French-Canadian prime minister brought in the Canadian army to crush the terrorists. I don’t think we’ve had any terrorism from the French-Canadians ever since and that was about 30 years ago.
[sub]The above comments are a result of grasping at straws[/sub]
I agree.
Taking out Saddam, who was paying families of Palestinian terrorists something like $25,000 apiece, was one step, yes?
Great points.
So either we Hamas is hit hard, or change has to be effected from within to marginalize the terror groups.
I too am grasping at straws.
Tough to make sense of a nonsensical situation.
Great points.
So either we Hamas is hit hard, or change has to be effected from within to marginalize the terror groups.
I too am grasping at straws.
Tough to make sense of a nonsensical situation.
Yes.
Don’t even go there People.
Israel hit Hamas hard 
[sub]Must have been an American slip[/sub]
The fastest way to effect change is to end the conditions that cause the formation of such groups. Palestinians are a persecuted, oppressed minority within the occupied territories and Israel as a whole. Every time Israel goes in and kills a few civillians and bulldozes a few houses in an attempt to destroy terrorists, they create more terrorists. The immediate end to occupation, removal of settlements, granting of full civil rights to palestinians, and inclusion of Palestinians in Israeli government is the only way to stop fueling the hatred that results in atrocities like the one mentioned in the OP. Of course, that would be completely impossible given the current Israeli government, thus necessitating first a change of those in power.
OK, gobear, this will be the third time telling you this. Ieven in the pit, provise some cites. Who is going to come in here and defend Hamas?
Actually, I think I know what gobear was referring to: he made a typo where he inadvertantly likened all Palestinians to terrorists, and got jumped on in the Pit. But it was just a typo. Nobody was defending Hamas.
I can’t seem to replicate a report of 100 people injured anywhere, some reports say 5 people killed, some say three, some say at least 2 women.
Details are sketchy, but at least that is where the reports of children dying could have started.
Actually, it’s very easy to both condemn terrorism and understand why they are doing it.
From CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/08/21/mideast/index.html
Israel retaliated by killing a hamas leader and his 2 bodyguards.
Bolding mine
I don’t see anywhere where civilians died here. I guess they are just paying lip service?
Well you know, as shitty as the film “Independance Day” truly was, it did in fact bear a salient point when it showed both the Israeil Air Force and the Saudi Air Force fighting side by side against a common enemy.
Sadly, the premise was firmly based in science fiction - namely that we, all of us, were being attacked by Aliens.
But it raises an interesting point, does it not? That is, when push comes to shove, we are, all of us, well we’re all the same, really aren’t we?
Sadly, it’s a curse of human nature that given the right circumstances that we can lose sight of the forest for all the trees. And in this context, the single biggest problem involved isn’t religion - nor is it the USA supporting Israel. Ultimately, it’s tribalism at it’s ugliest. One tribe thinks they own the land. Another tribe thinks, no, THEY own the land. And they’re both prepared to perform any obscenity necessary to enforce said claims to said land.
For those of us who would despair at the deteriorating situation, yes, it’s a tragic realisation that things would indeed seem to be veering inexorably from bad to worse - given the last 3 years in retrospect.
I’m probably guilty of sounding like some sort of “pie in the sky” idealist, but it seems to me that the simplest way of diffusing tribalism is to (a) one tribe totally performing genocide on the other (which given that Israel could probably do it shows that overall they tend to show restraint) or (b) that both tribes consciously work towards forever doing away with the inequities in living standards between the two tribes - thus resulting in a perception that they are ultimately all the same.
I’m a lucky guy… I live in a lovely safe home on the waterfront down here in Queensland, Australia and each morning I see the inshore dolphins swim past. But also, I’m a caring guy too - and it breaks my heart that a part of the Middle East, which in theory should be a wonderfully vital and prosperous part of Europe, is seemingly hell bent on destroying itself.
Tribalism.
It’s the ugliest flaw in human nature.