# 20 Million Tons of Junk Headed For Hawaii-Is Japan Liable? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2011, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958 "2011-10-27T12:35:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/1 "2011-10-27T12:35:03Z")
The enormous debris filed from the March tsunami is now poised to hit Hawaiin beaches in a few months. The junk includes appliances, wood fragments from houses, plastic bags, garbage and all manner of junk. According to what I read, much of it has been colonized by barnicles and seaweeds, so it will add a distinctive fragrance when it washes ashore. California shold start receiving this dreck in about 1.5-2 years. My question: is the Japanese Government liable for any of the cleanup/disposal costs? Having Malibu Beach befold by tons of junk isn’t going to sit well with the people who paid \>$10 million for a waterfront view-so who will wind up paying for this?☹ ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/2 "2011-10-27T14:10:51Z")
As always, the US taxpayers! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/3 "2011-10-27T14:17:15Z")
I’m curious, Ralph. Under what legal theory do you think that Japan would be liable for this debris? (It seems to me that Japan didn’t deliberately dump this stuff in the ocean; it was entirely due to the earthquake and tsunami.) ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/4 "2011-10-27T14:19:46Z")
You would somehow have to show negligence on Japan’s part… which would be hard if not impossible to do, however if Japan offered to help with the cleanup it might be good PR. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/5 "2011-10-27T14:28:05Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Having Malibu Beach befold by tons of junk isn’t going to sit well with the people who paid \>$10 million for a waterfront view-so who will wind up paying for this?☹ The people who paid for beachfront houses and accepted the risk that stuff might wash ashore. Just think about this for a minute: who pays for the damage if a hurricane tears my roof off and it destroys my neighbor’s car? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/6 "2011-10-27T14:48:04Z")
If both parties were under domestic US law, this would typically be considered a classic “Act of God.” The schlimazel bears the cost, not the schlemiel. Since it’s an international matter, whatever happens will be more political than legal, but I can’t imagine the US seeking to have Japan pay for US recovery costs, given how much damage Japan itself has had to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/7 "2011-10-27T15:02:42Z")
I wonder how it is that all the tsunami debris wasn’t pick up by the ocean gyre to become part of the Great Pacific Trash Vortex? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/8 "2011-10-27T15:07:05Z")
ok so The Tsunami killed 20,000, 5 million houses were destroyed. You want to knock on their door and say “oh BTW, we know you’ve got problems but would you mind awfully paying some money to clean up this debris that’s washed up on our beaches…” uh yeah… good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/9 "2011-10-27T15:22:19Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Having Malibu Beach befold by tons of junk isn’t going to sit well with the people who paid \>$10 million for a waterfront view-so who will wind up paying for this?☹ You paid \>$10 million for this house, shirley you can pay a couple of guys with a truck to come clean up your part of the beach. Roll it in with the thousands you are already paying for landscaping. Jeez. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/10 "2011-10-27T15:31:13Z")
Can’t believe I am gonna link a Daily Mail piece, but the debris field map is good: > **[Cars, whole houses and even severed feet in shoes: The vast field of debris...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374520/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-debris-floating-US-West-Coast.html)** > > Members of the U.S. Navy's 7th fleet say they have never seen anything like it and are warning the debris now poses a threat to shipping traffic. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/11 "2011-10-27T22:19:59Z")
Kinda like the Sky Lab incident. > [@](#): > > The Shire of Esperance fined the United States A$400 for littering, a fine which remained unpaid for 30 years. The fine was paid in April 2009, when radio show host Scott Barley of Highway Radio raised the funds from his morning show listeners and paid the fine on behalf of NASA. We could issue a fine for littering and Japan could tell us to go screw for even purposing such a thing. If your line of reasoning is ‘think about the rich people’ you’re thinking about people that don’t need your help. I find the concept of asking Japan to pay for the unintended consequences of their tragedy rather disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Meade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Reverend\_Meade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Meade)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/12 "2011-10-27T22:45:14Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I find the concept of asking Japan to pay for the unintended consequences of their tragedy rather disgusting. I’m going to have to agree. I find the OP kind of offensive. I’m having a hard time putting the exact level of offense into words. It’s not “you’re a horrible person bad”, but regardless, ralph124c you should be ashamed of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/13 "2011-10-27T23:09:59Z")
I believe that both insurance companies and applicable laws call this kind of event an “act of God” and absolve humans of responsibility for it. > [@UncleRojelio](#): > > You paid \>$10 million for this house, shirley you can pay a couple of guys with a truck to come clean up your part of the beach. And don’t call me surely. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/14 "2011-10-27T23:13:16Z")
Aren’t there bodies in that debris? It’s not just junk. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/15 "2011-10-27T23:38:37Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > Can’t believe I am gonna link a Daily Mail piece, but the debris field map is good: > > [Japan earthquake and tsunami debris floating towards US West Coast | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374520/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-debris-floating-US-West-Coast.html) From those maps, the debris field is passing North of Hawaii, and only the very edge might reach it. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/16 "2011-10-27T23:46:19Z")
Still waiting for the GQ thread: “How far will the Hawaiian Islands be moved by the impact” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/17 "2011-10-28T00:01:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Aren’t there bodies in that debris? It’s not just junk. [http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=how-long-do-dead-bodies-remain-inta-2009-06-10](http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=how-long-do-dead-bodies-remain-inta-2009-06-10) It looks like a body only lasts a few months before being rendered of flesh. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few bodies make it, just to prove that long-odds strike given a large enough sample size, but I don’t think it will be many. And while gross, I think most people will consider it to be a good thing if some bodies do make it, as that gives a chance for them to be identified and a proper [del]burial[/del] cremation performed. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/18 "2011-10-28T00:26:04Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:13, topic:600958”] And don’t call me surely. [/quote] No, we’ll just call you surly. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/19 "2011-10-28T01:27:37Z")
I heard from a reliable source … i.e., the teenager guiding my group of kayakers … that the people who own the houses on the bluffs in La Jolla not only can’t get mortgages or any kind of insurance, but when (not if) their houses fall into the sea, they will be fined for the pollution. However, even if true, it’s not exactly the same situation. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958/20 "2011-10-28T03:30:39Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > No, we’ll just call you surly. Is that you, Sally? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/20-million-tons-of-junk-headed-for-hawaii-is-japan-liable/600958.md?page=2)