# 200 girls kidnapped from physics class in Nigeria
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [April 26, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076 "2014-04-26T21:39:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/61 "2014-05-07T12:46:19Z")
> [@tonyfop](#):
>
> The entire thrust of this thread is about how the girls are kidnapped, and the Nigerian Government does not have the resources, or the “give-a-shit” to do anything about it. Your argument is that Nigeria should stand on its feet and take care of itself, which it obviously is not doing. You do not want help from others, and you say that the government is to corrupt to do anything. So what you are saying is that you are fine with the status quo. Maybe in the next election the people will stand up and elect a non-corrupt government. What are the chances of that? And what happens to these girls in the meantime?
The Nigerian government has resources, it is ignorance that leads people to say they do not.
It is not obvious Nigeria is not standing on its feet, if you know in fact Nigeria and htis is more reason for Americans to stay away as your ideas and understanding of the continent are badly informed and often very racist. So stay away and do not pretend to be the White Knights riding to the rescue.
In fact the Nigeria government has been fighting the Boko Haram for several years and can do things. It can do better but for the corruption.
Corruption is something that is solved by long effort as your own history has shown, and it is solved by domestic actions not by the foreigners.
---
### Author:  [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/62 "2014-05-07T12:53:19Z")
What many here need to learn is that Nigeria [is not poor and it is not incapable](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigeria_economy). It is now the largest economy in Africa and since democracy has grown greatly. Mali needed help from the incursions of the al Qaeda but Nigeria has the resources. Nigeria is not Mali. It is not a charity case of the Darkest Africa for the White Knights to ride to the rescue.
For Nigeria to continue to improve it has to feel its own internal pressures and this is happening. the Nigerian media in English shows this and even in the case of the kidnappings.
Africa has suffered enough from badly informed interventions. What is needed is investment and to build the self-capacity, not to run to foreigners for help when it is not needed in fact.
Shaming the Nigerian government and the very stupid and incompetent President is fine. giving some intelligence from the satellites and similar is fine.
But keep your troops and your drones to yourselves.
---
### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/63 "2014-05-07T13:26:27Z")
We should give all the women in Nigeria free guns and ammo.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/64 "2014-05-07T14:04:57Z")
I’m pretty sure there’s no shortage of guns there.
> [@Ramira](#):
>
> And of course it is not just in Asia, Yemen too, [wedding slaughter](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/the-wedding-that-a-us-drone-strike-turned-into-a-funeral/282936/).
Yemen _is_ in Asia.
---
### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/65 "2014-05-07T14:11:53Z")
> [@Ramira](#):
>
> My proposal is that for the Africa to stand on its feet, it does so by standing on its feet and not via White Guilt and neo colonialist interventions.
>
> the Nigerian govenrment is not helpless, it is corrupt. Let the Nigerians take care of their problems, and then the Nigerians will build their capacity to solve their problems.
And if the government of Nigeria - which until the recent social media bruhaha showed absolutely no signs of giving a damn - fail to do this just too damn bad for the girls who will live their lives in labor, sexual, and reproductive slavery?
Hey, I have no problems with all the other countries in Africa getting together to work on this, maybe, I dunno, have Camaroon and Chad and Niger shut down their slave markets and do something about the quaint notion that women aren’t people but rather chattel and wombs to produce sons.
What I object to is the notion that preventing foreigners from taking an interest is more important than the lives of several hundred human beings.
> [@](#):
>
> It is not up to the Americans to save the world.
Nothing would make me happier than the rest of the world saving itself.
On the other hand, Nigerian politicians whining because someone is pointing out they don’t give flip about a couple hundred girls trying to get an education being first kidnapped then sold off like livestock is just a load of bullshit. If you don’t want the rest of the world interfering (make no mistake, this isn’t just the US objecting) then clean up your own house.
---
### Author:  [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/66 "2014-05-07T14:17:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> I’m pretty sure there’s no shortage of guns there.
Since the collapse of the Qadhdhafi government, there is not a shortage of guns in the Sahel. But if you wish to imply that Nigeria has been like Somalia awash in guns, it is not the case, this is more bad ignorant stereotypes.
> [@](#):
>
> Yemen _is_ in Asia.
Yes, it is on the EurAsian continent. But it is not what in the international English we usually say is Asian.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/67 "2014-05-07T14:21:51Z")
> [@Ramira](#):
>
> What many here need to learn is that Nigeria [is not poor and it is not incapable](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigeria_economy). It is now the largest economy in Africa and since democracy has grown greatly…_snip_…What is needed is investment and to build the self-capacity, not to run to foreigners for help when it is not needed in fact.
If Nigeria is the largest African economy and is not poor, has resources, etc, why does it need foreign investment to improve itself and make changes?
I, for one, would never invest in a nation where kidnapping several hundred girls for use as slave labor and brood mares is met with no more than a shrug of official shoulders. This is, frankly, absolutely appalling.
> [@](#):
>
> For Nigeria to continue to improve it has to feel its own internal pressures and this is happening. the Nigerian media in English shows this and even in the case of the kidnappings.
What’s happening? Nigeria politicians clearly don’t give a damn about those girls nor did they have anything to say to the parents other than keep quiet, don’t rock the boat, don’t make a fuss or your girls might be killed. That is not an effective means to address the problem, and makes me wonder if some of them aren’t profiting either directly or indirectly from selling off these young women. The ONLY reason the Nigerian government is doing anything at this point is because of EXternal pressures.
> [@](#):
>
> But keep your troops and your drones to yourselves.
Right… because you could keep those troops and drones out? What will Nigeria do if the troops and drones are sent? Maybe the politicians there should be told to keep quiet, don’t rock the point, and stand back like they told the parents of the kidnapped girls? Oh, wait - the rules are different for the privileged elite, right? And they never have to worry about their daughters being stolen and raped so why should they care, it’s so much more important for them to retain their privileges than other people be allowed to live their lives without rape and being sold to the highest bidder.
If the Nigerian government had _acted_ like a government that gave a damn about the governed they wouldn’t be facing that problem. It’s not that they attempted to get the girls back and failed, _they didn’t even TRY_.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/68 "2014-05-07T14:23:42Z")
It’s certainly not something we distinguish from Asia in international English. And no, I am not implying that Nigeria is some kind of Somalianesque warzone. I am merely pointing out that more guns are probably not a good solution to Nigeria’s problems.
---
### Author:  [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/69 "2014-05-07T14:26:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> And if the government of Nigeria - which until the recent social media bruhaha showed absolutely no signs of giving a damn
You know this because you read very well the Nigerian media? Or because you just saw that CNN has made a report. I somehow think you have not been aware of what Nigeria does and says about the Boko Haram at all.
> [@](#):
>
> Hey, I have no problems with all the other countries in Africa getting together to work on this, maybe, I dunno, have Camaroon and Chad and Niger shut down their slave markets and do something about the quaint notion that women aren’t people but rather chattel and wombs to produce sons.
There are not slave markets in the Cameroun, nor in the Tchad nor in the Niger. Save your gross racist stereotypes about Africa for yourself.
The Boko Haram are speaking of the illegal actions that none of these countries tolerates. The Boko Haram are bandits and when they speak of selling girls they are speaking of the actions of bandits living in the wilderness.
I do not need to comment on the suppositions about any African culture coming from no real knowledge at all.
> [@](#):
>
> What I object to is the notion that preventing foreigners from taking an interest is more important than the lives of several hundred human beings.
I do not care what White Knight foreigners object to, Africa has suffered enough from badly informed ignorant interventions by foreigners who wake up one day see a TV report and decide to save us here.
> [@](#):
>
> On the other hand, Nigerian politicians whining because someone is pointing out they don’t give flip about a couple hundred girls trying to get an education being first kidnapped then sold off like livestock is just a load of bullshit. If you don’t want the rest of the world interfering (make no mistake, this isn’t just the US objecting) then clean up your own house.
I am not Nigerian, and I do not even like Nigeria very much, but I am offended by the gross ignorance on display in almost every comment, by people who treat Africa as the great Dark Continent. Let the Americans stop preaching to the whole world with great and ignorant arrogance and stop your racism, and we will fix ourselves as well.
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### Author:  [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/70 "2014-05-07T14:30:23Z")
[quote=“Broomstick, post:67, topic:687076”]
If Nigeria is the largest African economy and is not poor, has resources, etc, why does it need foreign investment to improve itself and make changes?
[quote]
Trade and foreign investment are the positive way to make changes and growth. All countries seek it as anyone not ignorant of economics would know.
> [@](#):
>
> I, for one, would never invest in a nation where kidnapping several hundred girls for use as slave labor and brood mares is met with no more than a shrug of official shoulders. This is, frankly, absolutely appalling.
There is no need for ignorant and racialist condescending investors to come to the continent, those Africa has suffered enough from in the past.
but perhaps you can come to kick shins and break legs.
The remainder of your comments are based on superficial reports from your TV and show you know nothing about the Nigeria. Leave Africa alone.
---
### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/71 "2014-05-07T15:13:07Z")
> [@Ramira](#):
>
> You know this because you read very well the Nigerian media? Or because you just saw that CNN has made a report.
Actually the BBC, but since all western people look/think alike it doesn’t matter, right?
> [@](#):
>
> There are not slave markets in the Cameroun, nor in the Tchad nor in the Niger. Save your gross racist stereotypes about Africa for yourself.
Oh, excuse me, we’re supposed to call it “human trafficking” now - except I’m not one for euphenisms.
> [@](#):
>
> The Boko Haram are bandits and when they speak of selling girls they are speaking of the actions of bandits living in the wilderness.
It’s sure starting to look like the bandits in Nigeria have more power than the government.
I also have no doubt that if were the daughters of politicians they would have sent in the army or asked for help but hey, rural people are expendable, right? No, they shouldn’t be.
> [@Ramira](#):
>
> > [@Broomstick](#):
> >
> > If Nigeria is the largest African economy and is not poor, has resources, etc, why does it need foreign investment to improve itself and make changes?
>
> Trade and foreign investment are the positive way to make changes and growth. All countries seek it as anyone not ignorant of economics would know.
Foreign money ALWAYS comes with foreign strings attached. If you don’t want foreigners taking an interest and speaking their minds don’t take their money. Ask North Korea how that’s working out - oh, wait, they take money from the Chinese. No nation is an island anymore in this world.
---
### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/72 "2014-05-07T15:15:23Z")
> [@Ramira](#):
>
> There are not slave markets in the Cameroun, nor in the Tchad nor in the Niger. Save your gross racist stereotypes about Africa for yourself.
The village elder of Chibok says some of the girls were taken into Cameroon and Chad. Abubakar Shekau says the goal is to sell them, why take them to countries where there is no market?
---
### Author:  [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/73 "2014-05-07T16:08:03Z")
The drone comment I made earlier was said half jokingly. It won’t happen anyway despite the Nigerian governments lack of will/ability to reign in this extremist group. But if the U.S. does send drones and you have wedding plans, might I recommend crossing the border into Cameroon to get married, I hear its all the rage these days.
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/74 "2014-05-07T16:36:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> I’m pretty sure there’s no shortage of guns there.
So why were they completely unarmed? _ **After** _ other schools had been closed because of the threat of attack?
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### Author:  [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/75 "2014-05-07T17:24:27Z")
Well I’m convinced. [Nigeria really has those Boko Haram guys up against the wall.](http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/07/world/africa/nigeria-abducted-girls/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)
---
### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/76 "2014-05-07T17:29:03Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> So why were they completely unarmed? _ **After** _ other schools had been closed because of the threat of attack?
Because they’re teenagers? Even Wayne LaPierre wouldn’t have armed them.
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### Author:  [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/77 "2014-05-07T17:39:55Z")
I lived for two years just a stones throw over the border in northern Cameroon, among a people that are culturally and ethnically (but not politically) the same as the communities in question.
These guys are going to dig their own grave. Nigerian politics is a huge mess, and it takes more than a few news stories to understand shay is going on politically with these guys (and I don’t claim to know much myself, except that it’s not as religious as it’s made out to be, and there is a lot of oil). But selling school kids doesn’t play any better there than it does anywhere else in the world. Boko Haram has already pissed everyone off pretty good by bombing bus terminals. Popular tide isn’t going to keep these guys is business long.
A showy intervention is the last, last, last thing we want to do. For one, it’s unlikely to be effective. It’s hard to understand just how remote the area in question is. The borders are meaningless, and there are lot of places to hide. More importantly, the area is not entirely polarized against Americans- indeed, all the politics of it are hazy…a popular bus stop purchase in northern Cameroon was an Osama Bin Laden/Beverley Hills 90210 watch. People admire a lot about America, but they also see us as pretty scary in that “death from the sky” kind of way, and they are pretty fascinated by anyone who has managed to fight against the US successfully. There is some underdog pride here, and you don’t want that to transfer to extremists.
Again, a lot of this is young men with little access to media. They get told the US is a faceless monster that kills Muslims. You really don’t want to confirm that. All it takes is one bombed wedding party to make a lot of enemies.
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> And if the government of Nigeria - which until the recent social media bruhaha showed absolutely no signs of giving a damn - fail to do this just too damn bad for the girls who will live their lives in labor, sexual, and reproductive slavery?
>
> Hey, I have no problems with all the other countries in Africa getting together to work on this, maybe, I dunno, have Camaroon and Chad and Niger shut down their slave markets and do something about the quaint notion that women aren’t people but rather chattel and wombs to produce sons
> .
Cameroon does not have slave markets, though there is the kind of occasional trafficking that is seen in most places (domestic and farm help, primarily. Sex workers in the area are generally not trafficked). Forced marriage is common in the north, but Muslim families do not generally buy brides-- indeed, they look down on the animist communities that do buy brides. They also look down on communities that do not require equal treatment of brides and other abuses. Islam is actually seen as a step up.
Teen marriage is common, but while pre-teen marriage happens, it’s seen as something done by sick old men who are exploiting starving families. The primary reason why families practice early marriage is that sexual activity starts young, access to birth control is limited and families are afraid their girls will get knocked up before they get married, putting them in a difficult economic situation as there are few earning opportunities for women outside of prostitution.
School is a problem because small communities have to send their kids to larger towns to attend school (or have then do multi-hour walks through unpopulated areas.) it’s not uncommon for even elementary school students to live alone, and parents are afraid of their girls getting pregnant (which isn’t helped by the fact that pregnant women are not allowed in school ),
Finally, there is no pronounced son preference. Women and girls do a lot to both keep the household running and earn small money, while few men are employed.
---
### Author:  [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/78 "2014-05-07T17:57:45Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#):
>
> The village elder of Chibok says some of the girls were taken into Cameroon and Chad. Abubakar Shekau says the goal is to sell them, why take them to countries where there is no market?
In case you hadn’t noticed, dude is cray-cray. Seriously nuts. This stuff sounds just as ludicrous in Nigeria as it does here. He’s spinning a Bond Villain fantasy here, not sensibly laying out his business plan.
Cameroon and Chad both have organized (and disorganized) crime, primarily bandit groups. Like any mafia, they aren’t selective about how they make money and I am sure they can traffic women in addition to running drugs and robbing busses. But it’s not like you wander to the Friday market in Cameroon and see a bunch of girls for sale. That sort of thing is very illegal and had no popular support.
Now and then a group of bandits is caught and lynched, but it doesn’t help much. It’s a huge area, the roads are bad, the police are understaffed and go months without pay, and most importantly there are lots of borders into chaotic countries that anyone can just walk across. There isn’t anything anyone can do about most of this- even the government, which is generally hundreds of miles away, up to their ears in problems, and in command of very little force in the region.
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### Author:  [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/79 "2014-05-07T18:14:01Z")
As an analogy, saying “Why doesn’t Nigeria go and clean that mess up,” is pretty much like saying “Why doesn’t the US just go stop the violence in Afghanistan?” Indeed, the US has more resources to draw on in Afghanistan than Nigeria has. These are extremely remote areas, the militaries and police are poorly equipped and widely unpopular, the infrastructure and roads suck, and the local political scene is an unpredictable tinderbox with no easy answers. Nobody can just snap their finger or lob a few missiles and make thing work. It’s hard to think of any response that won’t actually make things work. Even France has started just paying the bandits off. This isn’t just a matter of political will. It’s a reality that that part of the country is not fully under the control of the central government.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-class-in-nigeria/687076/80 "2014-05-07T18:50:18Z")
> [@even\_sven](#):
>
> These guys are going to dig their own grave.
While I am cheered by that prediction I have to wonder how many people these bandits will take with them.
As it is, they’ve been employing a “kill the men/boys, enslave the women” strategy which I associate more with the Old Testament Middle East and ancient empires than anything else. I find it quite disturbing.
> [@](#):
>
> A showy intervention is the last, last, last thing we want to do. For one, it’s unlikely to be effective.
The UK and US governments aren’t proposing that. So far as I know, no one is suggesting that other than the usual internet hot-heads. I understand that there is fear of violent intervention, death-from-the-sky drones, and so on, but I don’t think that’s what will happen.
> [@](#):
>
> People admire a lot about America, but they also see us as pretty scary in that “death from the sky” kind of way, and they are pretty fascinated by anyone who has managed to fight against the US successfully.
Now that bin Laden has been gunned down by the US do they feel the same way, that he’s somehow manged to fight “successfully” against the US?
> [@](#):
>
> Forced marriage is common in the north, but Muslim families do not generally buy brides-- indeed, they look down on the animist communities that do buy brides. They also look down on communities that do not require equal treatment of brides and other abuses. Islam is actually seen as a step up.
The problem, from my viewpoint, is that I don’t see much if any distinction between being _sold_ as a “bride” and being _forced_ to marry someone. Either way, the woman is being treated as a possession and is being forced into a relationship without regard for her as a human being.
And, let’s face it - Boko Haram has little to do with mainstream Islam and they really don’t give a fig about people outside their little club - hence their slaughter of men and boys. They keep the women alive because 1) they’re useful to BK as sex toys 2) they have economic value on the black market and 3) what, you expect BK men to do their own cooking/cleaning/sewing? That’s women’s work!
Islam has a long history of valuing education. These people clearly do not - hence their name.
> [@](#):
>
> Teen marriage is common, but while pre-teen marriage happens, it’s seen as something done by sick old men who are exploiting starving families.
I doubt that’s much consolation to starving pre-teen girls winding up with sick old men. Well, maybe they’re happy if they’re getting fed regularly but I want to see such things end.
> [@](#):
>
> Finally, there is no pronounced son preference. Women and girls do a lot to both keep the household running and earn small money, while few men are employed.
While man surrounding peoples may not have a son preference, based on their actions Boko Haram and their supporters not only have ridged gender roles in mind they’re quite happy to kill people with differing customs and viewpoints. I really don’t see where I need to have a lot of empathy for them.
> [@even\_sven](#):
>
> Even France has started just paying the bandits off.
There’s that old saying about once you pay the danegeld you’re never rid of the Dane. “Just paying off the bandits” will only make the situation worse over time.
> [@](#):
>
> It’s a reality that that part of the country is not fully under the control of the central government.
Then it’s past time they’ve asked for help.
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