# 200 idiotic ACLU staffers are trying to destroy this invaluable organization **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2017, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452 "2017-10-10T08:54:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/161 "2017-10-11T19:33:29Z")
Now I know what’s been nagging at me about the thread title. There’s a memory/broadcast announcer’s test that I learned as a child and have never forgotten\*, which goes something like this\*\*: - One hen Two ducks Three squawking geese Four Limerick oysters Five corpulent porpoises Six pair of Don Alverzo’s tweezers Seven thousand Macedonians in full battle array Eight brass monkeys from the ancient sacred crypts of Egypt Nine apathetic, sympathetic, diabetic old men on roller skates, with a marked propensity towards indolence and sloth Ten lyrical, spherical, diabolical denizens of the deep who hall stall around the corner of the quo of the quay of the quivery\* To which we can now add: _Two hundred idiotic ACLU staffers_ \*my other great achivement in this realm is being able to recite _Jabberwocky_ from memory. \*\*there are numerous variations. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/162 "2017-10-11T19:35:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Only \*very \*misogynist statements (like “She deserves to be raped”,for one common online example) but sure, yeah, I would. But then, I _don’t_ believe in free speech. What you believe in is the right for you to be an offensive prick not others. That makes you a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/163 "2017-10-11T19:57:34Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > My position has been that the answer to hate speech is more/free speech. Others seem to believe that censorship is the way to go. I don’t always agree with the ACLU. I consider them to be more of a necessary evil. Somebody has to mount a legal defense for the free speech of assholes such as Nazis and Antifa. Like I said: > [@Kimstu](#): > > I wonder how many of the non-liberals who loudly claim to be so outraged about some liberals’ questioning the ACLU’s defense of First Amendment rights for hate groups have ever given even one thin dime to the ACLU to support our work, or voted for a legislative reform measure that we advocated. > > Liberals who occasionally disagree with us about free speech but support us in general are still way better allies than conservatives who snarl and thump their chests about the importance of preserving free-speech rights for hate groups but don’t do jack-shit to assist our defense of civil liberties in any other way. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/164 "2017-10-11T20:01:02Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Like I said: Yeah. Your math is wrong. A dime contribution isn’t going to help much having to fight all the so-called “liberal” attempts to hinder free speech. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/165 "2017-10-11T20:37:24Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yeah. Your math is wrong. A dime contribution isn’t going to help much having to fight all the so-called “liberal” attempts to hinder free speech. So says the guy that comes to threads like this one ignoring that the nazis used more than just hate speech. Also a guy that ignores that the fascists hindered the speech of the ones opossed to them. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/166 "2017-10-11T20:51:05Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > So says the guy that comes to threads like this one ignoring that the nazis used more than just hate speech. Also a guy that ignores that the fascists hindered the speech of the ones opossed to them. You’re completely nonsensical. I’m not ignoring anything you deluded fool. This is a topic on free speech and the ACLU. Please try to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/167 "2017-10-11T21:13:02Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You’re completely nonsensical. I’m not ignoring anything you deluded fool. > > This is a topic on free speech and the ACLU. Please try to keep up. Nope I hit the Bulls eye. You do ignore key items to make your points sound reasonable when they are not. From the report of the NYT that the OP linked about: > **[After Charlottesville, A.C.L.U. Braces for the Next Alt-Right Case (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/us/aclu-charlottesville-white-supremacists.html?smid=tw-share)** > > With the decision to defend the organizer of a white supremacist rally still reverberating internally, the group considers its role for the future. > [@](#): > > But he cannot recall any case that has provoked as much soul-searching within the A.C.L.U. as the organization’s decision in August to sue on behalf of a man organizing a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va. That rally ended not in a memorable First Amendment victory, but a violent melee that left one woman dead and dozens injured, provoking horror around the country. > > “I just think the emotion and depth of agonizing was deeper than I can remember,” said Mr. Simon late last month, after returning from an A.C.L.U. conference in Denver. Within the A.C.L.U., many people were taken aback by “this rise of the armed alt-right,” Mr. Simon said, referring to the size and aggressiveness of the white supremacist turnout in Charlottesville, as well as the presence of people openly carrying guns. > > Since then, a question has hung over the organization: What will it do the next time the alt-right seeks the A.C.L.U.’s help? The point I made stands, and you indeed are ignoring why the dissenters of the ACLU made the letter. **IMHO the defense of the Nazis and racists should continue** , I do think that the ACLU should also remind their clients that there are limits to their defense once violence enters the picture. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/168 "2017-10-11T21:41:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nope I hit the Bulls eye. You do ignore key items to make your points sound reasonable when they are not. > > From the report of the NYT that the OP linked about: > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/us/aclu-charlottesville-white-supremacists.html?smid=tw-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/us/aclu-charlottesville-white-supremacists.html?smid=tw-share) > The point I made stands, and you indeed are ignoring why the dissenters of the ACLU made the letter. **IMHO the defense of the Nazis and racists should continue** , I do think that the ACLU should also remind their clients that **there are limits to their defense once violence enters the picture**. He’ll keep ignoring the big red part. It doesn’t fit his Nazi sympathizer world view. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/169 "2017-10-11T21:49:43Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > With what level of confidence do you make this assertion? 60% 90%? Obviously, you made a pit thread about it. So it must be pretty high, right? I’d just like to get you on the record. > > As for the rest, I’m glad you participate in causes you care about. My point was that you opine with undue confidence about _civil liberties_ without having worked on the issue and without displaying much grasp of it. You would do better to do some reading and actual work before you declare that the experts are destroying the cause. The day an intelligent layman with a strong interest in civil liberties issues cannot opine about it but should leave it to the (tiny minority of the population who could legitimately claim to be) experts, is a sad day and one that kind of misses the whole point IMO. And yes, my confidence is high. Did you listen to the podcast? If you are right, then the people the NYT interviewed, including one of the signees and multiple people who are highly placed within the ACLU, completely misunderstood or misrepresented what the letter said. I rather doubt that. But it’s possible. I will give it about a 3% chance. > [@](#): > > Potential claims by organizers that they acted in self-defense could be undercut by chatroom transcripts that show they were “waiting and hoping for [an action] that will justifiably trigger a violent response,” says Jeffrey Douglas, a board member of the ACLU Foundation of Southern California. I guess I’m more of an extremist than Jeffrey Douglas then. I think (to turn it around to perhaps better illustrate) a BLM activist should have every right to say very clearly so news cameras can hear, “Watch this: I’m gonna get that Nazi piece of shit over there to throw the first punch so I can lay him out.” Then he walks over, tells the guy with the swastika armband, “You know your pasty white sister is dying to get reamed out by my big black cock.” Then Swastika Boy throws the punch as predicted, and our hero from BLM dodges the blow and fires back with a haymaker that leaves the Nazi unconscious, bloody, and missing several teeth. That should be absolutely legal IMO. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Only \*very \*misogynist statements (like “She deserves to be raped”,for one common online example) but sure, yeah, I would. So it makes sense to you for the courts to spend time and resources parsing whether “I’d tap that ass” or “Give it to me, baby” crosses the line where “she deserves to be raped” resides? What about “she doesn’t deserve to be raped” followed by a wink? Jesus, think about what you’re proposing. Just the logistics should tell you you’re on the wrong path, even if your ethical weathervane is that broken. > [@Tee](#): > > I’m not ok with that, but I’m only here because I think a collective suspicion of marching militants works just fine as a policy. They can still buy billboards. > > I am curious though, if taking the absolutist position on the first amendment enables a greater understanding of those who voice a similar position on the second. Maybe a teensy bit. But mostly not, because guns are physical objects, products, that are extremely dangerous (physically). We don’t allow people to buy grenades, howitzers, or surface-to-air missiles. So there is no real absolutist Second Amendment position, except for a truly insane one that is perhaps held by a vanishingly small number of kooky militia types. And if you banned all guns, but had robust protection of speech and assembly, the people who oppose the gun ban could agitate to change the law back. If you are allowed to ban speech, then…not so much. Any entrenched policy or regime can protect that entrenchment. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/170 "2017-10-11T22:08:53Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > He’ll keep ignoring the big red part. It doesn’t fit his Nazi sympathizer world view. I’m not ignoring anything you intellectually dishonest psychopath. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nope I hit the Bulls eye. You do ignore key items to make your points sound reasonable when they are not. > > From the report of the NYT that the OP linked about: > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/us/aclu-charlottesville-white-supremacists.html?smid=tw-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/us/aclu-charlottesville-white-supremacists.html?smid=tw-share) > The point I made stands, and you indeed are ignoring why the dissenters of the ACLU made the letter. **IMHO the defense of the Nazis and racists should continue** , I do think that the ACLU should also remind their clients that there are limits to their defense once violence enters the picture. More intellectual dishonesty. Defending free speech is reasonable. Illegal and unprovoked actual violence is a separate subject and irrelevant here. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/171 "2017-10-11T23:19:51Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’m not ignoring anything you intellectually dishonest psychopath. > > More intellectual dishonesty. Defending free speech is reasonable. Illegal and unprovoked actual violence is a separate subject and irrelevant here. Meh, yours is not intellectual dishonesty but stupidity, violence was a reason for the complaint from the ACLU members. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/172 "2017-10-12T00:00:15Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yeah. Your math is wrong. A dime contribution isn’t going to help much having to fight all the so-called “liberal” attempts to hinder free speech. If you agree that the need is greater, then certainly feel free to donate more. But even a dime donation to the ACLU from conservatives would accomplish more than just continuing to sit on their lazy asses and tsk-tsk about how some liberals are “destroying” civil liberties while they don’t do jack-shit to support civil liberties themselves. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/173 "2017-10-12T01:24:17Z")
Conor Friedersdorf makes some great points [in the Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/the-aclu-should-keep-representing-deplorables/542226/), including one I was previously unaware of, not having read his earlier piece: > [@](#): > > What’s more, the effect of the Charlottesville rally was not to empower the alt-right. On the contrary, the public display of abhorrent behavior and symbols seemingly weakened it. > > As I noted last month, the journalist Angela Nagle spent years on some of the most transgressive fringes of the web to write Kill All the Normies: Online Culture Wars From 4Chan and Tumblr to Trump and the Alt-Right. In an interview on Ezra Klein’s podcast and in “Goodbye Pepe,” she reported that the subculture she long observed was changed irrevocably after the parade of Nazis and killing of an anti-racist protester, because many who treated the subculture as a game, and told themselves its racism was ironic, had to confront how abhorrent and gravely serious it was. > > Don’t get me wrong. The ACLU did not predict that Charlottesville would expose the alt-right as abetters of torch-carrying klansmen; force immature “shit-posters” to grapple with their complicity in deadly white supremacy; and cause millions of Americans to realize anew that the forces of bigotry are terrifyingly real and must be opposed. But those actual consequences of Charlottesville cut against the notion that the ACLU’s role in helping the event to happen somehow empowered white supremacists. Charlottesville was the biggest disaster for the alt-right in recent memory. And I certainly cosign his conclusion: > [@](#): > > Safeguarding the civil liberties of the powerless requires farsightedness and a strong stomach. The structure of our legal system, where precedents are set around hard cases rather than abstract arguments, guarantees that all of our First Amendment rights will be affected by how the most abhorrent kinds of speech are treated; that all of our Fourth Amendment rights will be shaped by cases involving hugely unsympathetic criminals; that what constitutes a “cruel or unusual punishment” could turn on how willing lawyers are to advocate on behalf of a child molester, a traitor, or a terrorist. > > A willingness to apply the indivisibility principle to white supremacists––as surely as to their moral cousins, like child molesters, rapists, and captured terrorists––is of a piece with this farsighted, strong-stomached comportment. Using that approach, the ACLU has achieved more for racial justice than any of its critics. It will best serve the most vulnerable among us going forward. Which reminds me: how come you never hear the same qualms about progressive groups that agitate against waterboarding or capital punishment? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/174 "2017-10-12T05:14:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What you believe in is the right for you to be an offensive prick not others. That makes you a hypocrite. Hate speech =/= “being an offensive prick”. There’s no hypocrisy there. I’ll be a hypocrite when I start calling for all white people to be sent back to Eurasia, or Christians to be kicked out of my country, or men to be raped for daring to speak up about something. Of course, only an idiot couldn’t tell the difference, like the kind of idiot who gangbangs cactuses without protection…off you go. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/175 "2017-10-12T05:18:40Z")
I am pro-ACLU in theory. But damn, they are a bunch of annoying gits. I made the mistake of joining when I lived in Albuquerque from 1990-91. Fuck me! I was then inundated with a constant stream of mailings begging for more money. I finally ditched them when I moved to Hawaii the first time and didn’t tell them. They may still be flooding my old mailbox with requests! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/176 "2017-10-12T05:21:14Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > So it makes sense to you for the courts to spend time and resources parsing whether “I’d tap that ass” or “Give it to me, baby” crosses the line where “she deserves to be raped” resides? Yes, it makes sense - it’s their job. > [@](#): > > What about “she doesn’t deserve to be raped” followed by a wink? Offensive, but not quite hate speech. > [@](#): > > Jesus, think about what you’re proposing. Just the logistics should tell you you’re on the wrong path, even if your ethical weathervane is that broken. I don’t see a logistical problem here - just re-allocate those resources currently being spent on prosecuting minorities disproportionately for harmless drug crimes, defending cops who murder unarmed teenagers, prosecuting harmless environmental activists, and trying to take away reproductive rights from women. It would not surprise me at all if there’s an overwhelming saving for the public _fiscus_. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/177 "2017-10-12T05:37:56Z")
[quote=“SlackerInc, post:173, topic:798452”] Conor Friedersdorf makes some great points [in the Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/the-aclu-should-keep-representing-deplorables/542226/), including one I was previously unaware of, not having read his earlier piece: > [@](#): > Chalk up +1 situational evidence for the argument, “In a free speech environment, good ideas succeed and bad ideas don’t”. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/178 "2017-10-12T06:55:53Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If you agree that the need is greater, then certainly feel free to donate more. > > But even a dime donation to the ACLU from conservatives would accomplish more than just continuing to sit on their lazy asses and tsk-tsk about how some liberals are “destroying” civil liberties while they don’t do jack-shit to support civil liberties themselves. So conservatives do not donate to the ACLU? > [@MrDibble](#): > > Hate speech =/= “being an offensive prick”. There’s no hypocrisy there. I’ll be a hypocrite when I start calling for all white people to be sent back to Eurasia, or Christians to be kicked out of my country, or men to be raped for daring to speak up about something. > > Of course, only an idiot couldn’t tell the difference, like the kind of idiot who gangbangs cactuses without protection…off you go. Do you realize how demented you come across? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/179 "2017-10-12T07:04:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Do you realize how demented you come across? Considering the shitstain who thinks I’m demented, I don’t give a fuck. You’re a dumb, partisan, assholish, Neanderthal son of a bitch, I wear opprobrium from you and your loutish clique as a badge of pride. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452/180 "2017-10-12T07:08:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Considering the shitstain who thinks I’m demented, I don’t give a fuck. You’re a dumb, partisan, assholish, Neanderthal son of a bitch, I wear opprobrium from you and your loutish clique as a badge of pride. You’re acting fucking demented. Right now you remind me of **Der Trihs** on a bad day, except less capable of actually arguing your point. You’re like a cross between his formless rage and **elucidator** ’s semi-incoherent ramblings (which are inoffensive and rather charming as they are right now, don’t get me wrong, but combined with hyperpartisan anger, it’s like pouring water on a gremlin). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/200-idiotic-aclu-staffers-are-trying-to-destroy-this-invaluable-organization/798452.md?page=10)