# 2000 year old writing tablets found preserved in London mud. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 1, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260 "2016-06-01T23:06:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/1 "2016-06-01T23:06:53Z")
I guess we have to take their word for it. šŸ˜• All I see is some termite holes and scratches. Iā€™m amazed these didnā€™t get tossed in the dumpster during excavation. You see any writing there? All I make out are a couple crude Mā€™s. But they easily could just be scratches. [https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-000-old-handwritten-documents-found-london-mud-122936073.html?nhp=1](https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-000-old-handwritten-documents-found-london-mud-122936073.html?nhp=1) > [@](#): > > Archaeologists announced Wednesday they have discovered hundreds of writing tablets from Roman London ā€” including the oldest handwritten document ever found in Britain ā€” in a trove that provides insight into the cityā€™s earliest history as a busy commercial town. > > Researchers from Museum of London Archaeology uncovered more than 400 wooden tablets during excavations in Londonā€™s financial district for the new headquarters of media and data company Bloomberg. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/2 "2016-06-01T23:20:41Z")
I can make out ā€˜A B C Dā€™ in the top left, above the ā€˜missingā€™ section, and definitely ā€˜M Nā€™ (and possibly ā€˜Oā€™) just below it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/3 "2016-06-01T23:24:00Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > But they easily could just be scratches. They are scratches. Theyā€™re where the writer penetrated to the wood through the wax. As is explained in the article you are so skeptical of. Also, theyā€™re written in Latin, not English. Iā€™m uncertain as to why one photograph of one tablet makes you better able to judge the find than the experts are. This is the only part that bugs me: ā€œOne tablet carries the date Jan. 8, A.D. 57, ā€¦ā€ I wish theyā€™d said what the actual reading of the date was that they assigned to 57 AD. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/4 "2016-06-02T00:01:30Z")
Iā€™m not questioning what the Experts are saying. Iā€™m just not seeing writing that I expected. Usually its easy to see. [like this tablet](http://static1.squarespace.com/static/514e6c01e4b045db9416eadb/5170b951e4b02974eba1d197/5170c0bee4b054b6c22dda5f/1366343871260/cuneiform+text+dates+back+to+the+6th+year+of+prince+Lugalanda+who+ruled+about+2370+B.C.+in+southern+Mesopotamia..jpg?format=500w) I canā€™t read the language but anyone can see at a glance that theres writing there. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/5 "2016-06-02T00:15:03Z")
Anyway, its a cool discovery. Iā€™d like to see scans of the wood tablets. Theres techniques they can use to bring out even the faintest traces of writing. I hope they post them. Much like they posted scans of the Dead Sea Scrolls. ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/6 "2016-06-02T10:45:41Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > They are scratches. Theyā€™re where the writer penetrated to the wood through the wax. As is explained in the article you are so skeptical of. Also, theyā€™re written in Latin, not English. Iā€™m uncertain as to why one photograph of one tablet makes you better able to judge the find than the experts are. > > This is the only part that bugs me: ā€œOne tablet carries the date Jan. 8, A.D. 57, ā€¦ā€ I wish theyā€™d said what the actual reading of the date was that they assigned to 57 AD. According to the BBC itā€™s: In the consulship of Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus for the second time and of Lucius Calpurnius Piso, on the 6th day before the Ides of January (8 January AD 57).I, Tibullus the freedman of Venustus, have written and say that I owe Gratus the freedman of Spurius 105 denarii from the price of the merchandise which has been sold and delivered. This money I am due to repay him or the person whom the matter will concern > **[UK's oldest hand-written document 'at Roman London dig'](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36415563)** > > Roman tablets discovered during excavations in London include the oldest hand-written document ever found in Britain, archaeologists say. ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/7 "2016-06-02T11:16:15Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > ā€¦ Iā€™m amazed these didnā€™t get tossed in the dumpster during excavationā€¦ Actually, Iā€™d be more amazed if they _did_ get tossed in the dumpster. With London being such an historically sensitive city, itā€™s almost mandatory for any works to be preceded by an archaeological survey, and a lot of projects have an attached team of archaeologists. For example: > **[Unlocking Roman London's underground secrets: Roman skulls unearthed](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/unlocking-roman-london-s-underground-secrets-roman-skulls-unearthed-at-ps14-8bn-crossrail-project-site-8853140.html)** > > Bones may have been washed from a nearby burial site along River Walbrook In the link above youā€™ll find the following (bolding mine) : > [@](#): > > ā€¦ ā€œThis discovery reveals another piece in the jigsaw of Londonā€™s history,ā€ said **lead Crossrail archaeologist Jay Carver**. ā€œThis isnā€™t the first time that skulls have been found in the bed of the River Walbrook and many early historians suggested these people were killed during the Boudicca rebellion against the Romans.ā€ > > ā€¦ Due to safety concerns, **Crossrailā€™s archaeologists have had to leave the early stages of archaeological work to the projectā€™s specialist tunnellers** , as the skulls were up to 6m below ground. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/8 "2016-06-02T11:42:27Z")
> [@JacobSwan](#): > > [UK's oldest hand-written document 'at Roman London dig' - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36415563) Thatā€™s a _much_ better article. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/9 "2016-06-02T19:26:18Z")
Yes, thereā€™s a lot more detail in the BBC article. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/10 "2016-06-04T05:57:52Z")
> [@RobDog](#): > > Actually, Iā€™d be more amazed if they _did_ get tossed in the dumpster. With London being such an historically sensitive city, itā€™s almost mandatory for any works to be preceded by an archaeological survey, and a lot of projects have an attached team of archaeologists. And remember that the estimated value of the artifacts discovered is a donation, so it can be deducted from their taxes. They might even be able to deduct the costs of the archaeological survey or the attached team as a tax writeoff. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/11 "2016-06-04T06:49:02Z")
2000 year old tablets, eh? Let me run them through my special image enhancer. Just as I thought - signed by Mel Brooks. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/12 "2016-06-04T09:39:52Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Iā€™m not questioning what the Experts are saying. > > Iā€™m just not seeing writing that I expected. Usually its easy to see. [like this tablet](http://static1.squarespace.com/static/514e6c01e4b045db9416eadb/5170b951e4b02974eba1d197/5170c0bee4b054b6c22dda5f/1366343871260/cuneiform+text+dates+back+to+the+6th+year+of+prince+Lugalanda+who+ruled+about+2370+B.C.+in+southern+Mesopotamia..jpg?format=500w) I canā€™t read the language but anyone can see at a glance that theres writing there. As noted, the tablets were filled with wax. The writers were not trying to write into the wood. And, of course, the wood has probably decayed a bit. Hereā€™s a good introduction to wax-based note taking: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/_RwR_nQ6SS4/hqdefault.jpg "Laptops of the Ancient World") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RwR_nQ6SS4) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2000-year-old-writing-tablets-found-preserved-in-london-mud/756260/13 "2016-06-04T17:17:09Z")
The BBC also has a good article about the earlier excavations too. > **['Entire streets' of Roman London uncovered in the City](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-22084384)** > > An archaeological dig in the heart of the City provides a unique insight into the first 400 years of London's Roman history, experts say. Great stuff.