# 2005: Record Exxon Profit = Evil Price Gouging, 2011: Record Apple Profit = American Success Story? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210 "2011-01-19T16:23:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/41 "2011-01-20T15:36:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In “the iPad area” I think you may be confusing monopoly with “useless product”. Nobody else is bothering to compete with the iPad because nobody actually needs a swollen iPhone that won’t make phone calls. Out of my cold, dead hands… Total hijack - when you get out into the world of practice, you may well find out that tablets are very handy indeed. Though by then they will be a hell of a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/42 "2011-01-20T16:00:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In “the iPad area” I think you may be confusing monopoly with “useless product”. Nobody else is bothering to compete with the iPad because nobody actually needs a swollen iPhone that won’t make phone calls. Is that a joke? “Everyone” is trying to get into the tablet market. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/43 "2011-01-20T16:06:50Z")
The iPad isn’t a tablet PC. It looks like one, and in some respects functions like one, but it’s more like a scaled-up iPhone. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/44 "2011-01-20T16:13:08Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Well, other than the whole FoxConn thing. Nike certainly took a pounding when it sourced from certain suppliers and assemblers as a way of keeping costs down (and therefore profits high). Apple outsources all of its manufacturing to China, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/45 "2011-01-20T16:14:01Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Apple outsources all of its manufacturing to China, doesn’t it? I have no idea if it does all of it there, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/46 "2011-01-20T16:18:17Z")
I think I said this somewhere on an iPad thread. The iPad is unusual in that it is actually _more useful_ than it appears. When it first came out, I held the same position (‘it’s just a big iPhone, why the hell would I want one’), but in using one, I realized that a big iPhone is significantly more useful in many tasks. And now I really really want one! (1) We loaded digital pictures, taken that very day, onto it while on vacation so that my mom could browse them easily. (2) Surfing the web is a significantly better experience with the larger screen. While one can surf on an iPhone, the same task is much much easier and less frustrating on an iPad. (3) Games! Yeah, it “just has a bigger screen,” but that bigger screen seriously improves utility. Sorry for the hijack. To make it relevant, I would point out that it is this type of innovation that makes Apple appear less evil. Creativity is rewarded in that respect. Profits based on destruction, much less so. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/47 "2011-01-20T16:20:57Z")
Not wanting to hijack the thread… I get all that, but what is it good for that a laptop isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/48 "2011-01-20T16:29:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Not wanting to hijack the thread… I get all that, but what is it good for that a laptop isn’t? Sit in economy and try to bill 3 hours on that flight to Des Moines on your laptop. ---
**Author:** ![Page\_Fault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ad7895/32.png) [@Page\_Fault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Page_Fault)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/49 "2011-01-20T19:14:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Not wanting to hijack the thread… I get all that, but what is it good for that a laptop isn’t? I don’t really want to derail the thread with a full listing, but suffice to say that the iPad and a laptop are two very different beasts. I have both, and I use both to varying degrees depending on what I’m doing and where I’m going. While in theory you can do everything on a laptop that you can do on an iPad, in practice you wouldn’t want to, since it’s so much easier/faster/more convenient on the iPad. Saying you can use a laptop to do everything the iPad can do is sort of like saying you can drive a McLaren to work every day, so why buy a Corolla? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/50 "2011-01-20T19:43:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Not wanting to hijack the thread… I get all that, but what is it good for that a laptop isn’t? My wife just bought an iPad a week ago, and already she uses it for almost everything she used to use her laptop for. First of all, it’s FAR more portable, while having almost as big a screen. Most of what she used to do on her laptop was really simple stuff: Email, Facebook, online shopping, other random Internet browsing. All that stuff can be done just as easily, if not more easily, on the iPad. The only thing the iPad is missing is a file system. So she has to use her laptop for documents. But that’s not something she deals with very often outside of work. Also, typing on a real keyboard is easier than on the iPad’s virtual keyboard. So if she has to write a really long message she’ll use the laptop. But that also is pretty uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/51 "2011-01-20T20:17:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Except that Exxon isn’t the sole supplier of gas to American consumers, so your analogy falls apart. > > At any rate, the real answer to the OP, to put it succinctly, is that people are stupid. They want gas guzzling SUVs, but don’t accept that no one is obligated to sell them cheap gas. In what other industry does your profit margin increase as the cost or raw materials increases? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/52 "2011-01-20T20:18:06Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > In what other industry does your profit margin increase as the cost or raw materials increases? Um, really? In every other industry. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/53 "2011-01-20T21:18:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You ever notice how we virtually never see massive spills of anything from ships other than oil? That’s because they have bribed their way into having lower safety standards than everyone else, including not having to use double hulled tanks like any other transporter of a hazardous chemical would have to. Or because it doesn’t generate the [attention](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-464768/Thousands-rubber-ducks-land-British-shores-15-year-journey.html) that oil spills do. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The computer industry just doesn’t do the kind of damage the oil industry does. Don’t be so sure about [that](http://update.unu.edu/archive/issue31_5.htm). > [@](#): > > Possible long-term health effects on workers, families and neighboring communities due to chemical exposure and emissions from production stages such as microchip fabrication. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/54 "2011-01-20T21:58:29Z")
Lots of fun esoteric theorizing but no one gave the correct answer. > [@brickbacon](#): > > So why the difference in treatment? Liberals love Apple and hate oil companies. It could be a SWPL page if it isn’t already. **EDIT:** [It is.](http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/30/39-apple-products/) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/55 "2011-01-21T00:58:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What does that have to do with my post? Do you disagree that the common definition of the “bigness” of a company is gross revenue? You seemed to be saying that Exxon is somehow virtuous (or more virtuous) because of low margins. Margins have nothing to do with it. I don’t revenues do either, AT&T was disliked because of anti-competitive behavior, not just due to bigness. A common defense of big companies seems to be that they have low margins, and that is a nonsense defense, IMO. If bigness is gross revenue, evilness is not correlated to bigness. If bigness is somehow related to margins, evil is not correlated to margins. Is it big profits and low margins vs big profits and high margins? And in the rest of my post, I gave my answer to the OP question. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/56 "2011-01-21T01:04:49Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Um, really? > In every other industry. You mean in every other industry where there is seriously inelastic demand. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/57 "2011-01-21T03:52:11Z")
There’s a simple reason that Exxon is regarded as evil. Their name is _Exxon_. It’s a well known fact that the more Xs you have in your name, the more evil you are. If Exxon wasn’t the name of a real company, it would be a front for Specter in one of the lesser Bond movies. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/58 "2011-01-21T03:56:01Z")
It’s ExxonMobil now. Xs _and_ a German-sounding bit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/59 "2011-01-21T05:00:42Z")
Just for the record, has Apple, shitty as some of their policies may be, ever caused a major environmental disaster and then fought tooth, and nail to avoid cleaning up the mess their clueless incompetence caused? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210/60 "2011-01-21T14:04:52Z")
Apple’s industry is not one that tends to involve environmental disasters. Kind of an unfair comparison. It’s like saying that a bus company is worse than an airline because nobody ever gets run over by an airliner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2005-record-exxon-profit-evil-price-gouging-2011-record-apple-profit-american-success-story/568210.md?page=4)