# 2007 US Open at Oakmont. Anybody? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2007, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114 "2007-06-15T12:42:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/21 "2007-06-15T21:00:53Z")
I’ve noticed a couple of things that I’ve not liked about the way golf has been going, especially the US Open. I like that they make the course tough, but I hate it when I see someone get a nice shot to have it trickle by the hole and then off the green. And by that I mean when it goes by the hole so slow you think it’s going to stop and then doesn’t. The other thing I don’t like are things like 280 yard par 3s, they’ve even said only 15 people have gotten to the green. I don’t find things like that fair, not everyone can hit a ball 280 yards. Then of course those that do hit the green it trickles by. I’m all for the thick rough, tigher fairways, deeper bunkers, but those two things just seem to annoy me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/22 "2007-06-15T21:15:07Z")
I’d be very happy to see David Toms win. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/23 "2007-06-15T21:18:00Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I’d be very happy to see David Toms win. [/QUOTE] He already has a major, doesn’t he? I was surprised to see his fairways and greens both in the 60%s. Of course, not a heck of a lot of guys were doing any better! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/24 "2007-06-15T21:26:32Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale] He already has a major, doesn’t he? [/QUOTE] PGA championship a few years ago. IIRC, he laid up on the par 5 18th, made a birdie and beat Phil. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/25 "2007-06-15T21:45:40Z")
Sorry, **David**. I didn’t mean to jinx you!! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/26 "2007-06-15T22:31:28Z")
[QUOTE=Edward The Head] The other thing I don’t like are things like 280 yard par 3s, they’ve even said only 15 people have gotten to the green. [/QUOTE] It’s not playing 280 yards. Ogilvy just got on with an iron. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/27 "2007-06-15T23:50:28Z")
[QUOTE=Only Mostly Dead] It certainly seems that, of all the tournaments the PGA has a hand in, they are trying to give at least one per year in the US Open that will not only test the players, but will outright beat them. [/QUOTE] > [@Least Original User Name Ever](#): > > Also, a sidenote about PGA-OK pin placements: a 3 foot area around any pin placement has to be flat. That means that about 90% of the courses you play, the pin placements wouldn’t even be legal there. (Also, they’ve got to be about a flagstick from the fringe, so with those guidelines, it might not even be POSSIBLE for your course to hold a tournament). The US Open is not now and never has been a PGA Tournament. It is run by the USGA and they are quite clear that PGA rules don’t apply. In fact, a large number of the pros you’re watching played their way in to the tournament at the same regionals as all the amateurs. They are also quite clear about the fact that they deliberately set the course to the hardest played on all year. In their eyes, par should easily win. I also don’t believe that your stated rule about 3 ft of flat ground is correct either. Would you happen to have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f19dbf/32.png) [@Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Only_Mostly_Dead)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/28 "2007-06-16T02:32:25Z")
[QUOTE=Zakalwe] The US Open is not now and never has been a PGA Tournament. It is run by the USGA and they are quite clear that PGA rules don’t apply. [/QUOTE] And you are quite right. I must have gotten a touch glossy eyed at that point in my OP. **Edward the Head** : agreed that courses and organizers do not always go about making tough courses the right way. Trouble is, technology has so beaten anything except the muscle to hit a 300 yard par three. Woods are more powerful and forgiving, irons are less disturbed by standard rough, U grooved wedges give more spin than V grooves, making the sand an attractive layup option instead of a hazard. Personally, I’d love to see one tournament per year, even if it was just a charity deal, where everybody had to play with old (by which I mean circa 1950s-60s) clubs. Persimmon woods, blade irons with steel shafts, rudimentary early “modern” balls. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/29 "2007-06-16T16:28:54Z")
[QUOTE=Zakalwe] I also don’t believe that your stated rule about 3 ft of flat ground is correct either. Would you happen to have a cite? [/QUOTE] I, too, find that dubious. Wow, what a [whiny little bitch](http://www.mercurynews.com/columns/ci_6157182?nclick_check=1) Phil turned out to be. > [@](#): > > “People were hurting their ribs, their back, their wrists,” Mickelson said. “It’s disappointing to dream as a kid about winning the U.S. Open and spend all this time getting ready for it and have the course setup injure you. You’re trying to win and hit great shots, but you’re also trying to not end your career on one shot.” Maybe his caddie should remind him that you’re not supposed to be in the rough in the first place. And if you do happen to find yourself there, TYM and punch out to the fairway instead of trying to whack it onto the green. Oh, and you went into this tournament with the injury, Phil. You’re the one who decided it would be smart to make all those practice shots out of the rough even though you knew you’re wrist wasn’t fully healed. I hope Johnny Miller just rips into him today! ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/30 "2007-06-16T16:58:48Z")
You’d think they have pit traps and poisoned stakes and all in the rough out there. It’s dirt with grass on it, and trees. Sometimes there’s water. In other words, it’s a _golf course_, not an Angolan land mine field. I’m not saying you can’t get nasty injuries playing golf, but puh-_leeze_. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/31 "2007-06-16T17:07:55Z")
Does anybody actually _like_ Chris Berman? His puns are horrendous (never mind that nearly all puns are horrendous). Today I’ve heard him refer to Joe Durant as “Durant Durant, Hungry Like the Wolf,” and after a bad shot from Ian Poulter, “Poulter the geist!,” which doesn’t make a lick of sense. [/QUOTE] I like Chris Berman. While you are correct the two “nicknames” above are both stupis he has created some gems over the years. My all-time favorite is Eric “Sleeping With” Bienemy. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/32 "2007-06-16T17:19:14Z")
Just saw a 3 foot downhill putt missed. About 30 feet coming back. 280 yard par 3 are not possible with an iron.,without wind or elevation. Do you like it better when the pros go low or prefer when they fight and struggle for pars. ? I like the change. ---
**Author:** ![Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f19dbf/32.png) [@Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Only_Mostly_Dead)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/33 "2007-06-16T18:08:07Z")
[QUOTE=dennis gallagher] I like Chris Berman. While you are correct the two “nicknames” above are both stupis he has created some gems over the years. My all-time favorite is Eric “Sleeping With” Bienemy. [/QUOTE] Then you are my sworn enemy. …I love you, man. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/34 "2007-06-16T19:04:28Z")
And here comes Tiger… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/35 "2007-06-16T19:30:34Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I, too, find that dubious. Wow, what a [whiny little bitch](http://www.mercurynews.com/columns/ci_6157182?nclick_check=1) Phil turned out to be. Maybe his caddie should remind him that you’re not supposed to be in the rough in the first place. And if you do happen to find yourself there, TYM and punch out to the fairway instead of trying to whack it onto the green. Oh, and you went into this tournament with the injury, Phil. You’re the one who decided it would be smart to make all those practice shots out of the rough even though you knew you’re wrist wasn’t fully healed. I hope Johnny Miller just rips into him today! [/QUOTE] Word on that. The course is the same for everybody. The way to deal with deep rough is not to hit the ball in it (easy for me to say, I know), but if you do find yourself in the cabbage it’s your own your own responsibility to avoid shot selections which put you at risk for injury. Claiming “the course setup injured me” is whiny and graceless and poor sportsmanship. Tiger looks sharp as a razor today. That last drive he just hit was gorgeous. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/36 "2007-06-16T20:04:05Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] It’s not playing 280 yards. Ogilvy just got on with an iron. [/QUOTE] I still dislike it when they know full well that not everyone will reach. The web site says that only 25% have hit the green. As I said I don’t mind them making it hard, but at least give the majority of them a chance to par. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/37 "2007-06-17T01:33:18Z")
[QUOTE=Edward The Head] I still dislike it when they know full well that not everyone will reach. The web site says that only 25% have hit the green. [/QUOTE] \*\*Hitting \*\*the green and \*\*reaching \*\*the green are two entirely different things. I doubt there are more than a handful of players who can’t hit the ball far enough to get it on that green. You generally want to to hit it short and run it up on this green anyway. I’d rather see more of these type of par 3s than the wimpy par 5s that the players can get on with driver + mid iron. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/38 "2007-06-17T02:31:57Z")
I’m with **Mace** on this. Par _should_ be meaningful. A bad shot _should_ be penalized. I find it tiresome to watch tourneys with soft greens, where every approach is a free throw, where every par 5 is a birdie hole, etc. I love seeing the pros have to struggle for par. I love seeing them have to kill snakes in the weeds. I think the US Open might be my favorite Major just because it’s the hardest. It’s a real test. If the course sets up so that only the very best players have a chance to win, well isn’t that the point? It’s supposed to be a real test of skill. I don’t _want_ a contest where everybody has a shot. I think a Major should minimize the element of luck and the possibility of a lesser player getting hot for a day and stealing a trophy. To win the US Open, you have to be legitimately good and you have to be able to sustain a consistent, non-flukey skill level for four whole days. Slow and steady wind the race in this Major. It’s a marathon, not a sprint. The kind of round that Tiger had today is the kind that wins the Open. Not flashy, not getting hot and raining down birdies, but just grinding out par after par, avoiding bogeys and playing the course, shot for shot, the right way. If Tiger has another round tomorrow like he had today, I think he walks away with number 13 (I don’t see that Baddeley kid holding up all day on sunday when he’s paired with Tiger). ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/39 "2007-06-17T03:06:55Z")
Actually, though the USGA claims that finding the truly best players is the purpose of their setup, the US Open routinely ends up being won by people who are far from the best, sometimes multiple times. One can, perhaps, say Andy North at this point. Or Jeff Ogilvy. Look at the leader board. Who, besides Tiger, from among the best in the world, is in a strong position? The names are all second-rate players. There is nothing about finding out who the best is in this. Still, the courses do need toughening. It just shouldn’t be done by breaking players’ wrists. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114/40 "2007-06-17T03:33:45Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Actually, though the USGA claims that finding the truly best players is the purpose of their setup, the US Open routinely ends up being won by people who are far from the best, sometimes multiple times. One can, perhaps, say Andy North at this point. Or Jeff Ogilvy. Look at the leader board. Who, besides Tiger, from among the best in the world, is in a strong position? The names are all second-rate players. There is nothing about finding out who the best is in this. [/quote] Well, maybe people you consider to be second rate. But if we look at those within 5 strokes of the leader, we see Justin Rose (#19 in the world rankings), Jim Furyk (#3), Stuart Appleby (#26), and David Toms (#21). The top ten players now are almost all quite familiar as being on the leaderboard at tournaments they play in. Many of the other familiar ones are not, but that’s golf-- it’s always like that. The only winner in the last 10 US Opens who couldn’t be considered one of the best is Michael Campbell. > [@](#): > > Still, the courses do need toughening. It just shouldn’t be done by breaking players’ wrists. Who broke his wrist? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2007-us-open-at-oakmont-anybody/408114.md?page=3)