# 2008 election: New poll puts John Edwards ahead of Obama, Clinton, & McCain **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147 "2006-12-14T16:29:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/81 "2006-12-15T22:18:08Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] I think the issue was whether he projects strength, not whether you find him attractive. [/QUOTE] And a person’s appearance and manner are a big part of that. I never said I found him either attractive or unattractive-- those are your words. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/82 "2006-12-15T22:59:02Z")
When I first heard Kerry was selecting Edwards to be his running mate in 2004 I thought it was a good choice, but then Edwards opened his mouth. I knew little about him before the campaign and hadn’t realized he was such a lightweight with, IMO, little credibility or experience. In 2008 I don’t think he would have much of a chance against just about any Republican (I think he would have lost to Bush in 2004). I believe the “big noises” like Obama and Clinton will attract all the attention (most importantly the negative attention) and spend a lot of money just to end up setting the table for a quiet moderate with little money who will position himself to scoop up the Hillary and Barrack cash once their attempts are finally seen as untenable. This candidate will only begin to really emerge once we get close to the early primaries, and will end up with “surprisingly” strong finishes in NH and Iowa. This is the pattern we saw with such “longshots” as Bill Clinton and Howard Dean. Dean might have gone the whole way but for a ridiculous fluke, and Clinton of course DID win the whole cigar (as it were). The candidate that seems most likely to me to fill that role this time around is Evan Bayh. Sure–not many people know about him now, and those that do probably don’t give him much of a chance. Just like Billy and Howie. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/83 "2006-12-15T23:08:44Z")
Sorry about the additional post------- I forgot to add that once Obama and H. Clinton start to fade as realism sets in with the Democrats, that will be the perfect time for Al Gore to enter the race. It’s perfect-- he just waits until the big names are viewed essentially as “no-gos” and then he steps in to save the day. He’ll enter the fray with a lot of cash on hand AND he’ll immediately get the cash and support from the former Obama and Clinton supporters. I think this may in fact be his strategy and that is why he is mum right now about running, yet still keeping himself visible. Gore would be the Democratic Juggernaut–the only one they have short of Bill Clinton. And Bill WILL rise again… as soon as the Constitution is changed to allow foreign-born Americans to run, the Dems will cut a deal and have the two-term limit changed at the same time and it will be the political fight of the century-- Arnold vs. Bill. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/84 "2006-12-15T23:13:37Z")
**John Mace** has it exactly right. Like it or not, appearance plays a role in presidential politics. To put it as kindly as possible, Kucinich just doesn’t look or sound like the guy who will inspire people to rally behind him. (I can put it less kindly if you insist.) Saber-rattling has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/85 "2006-12-15T23:18:44Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] **John Mace** has it exactly right. Like it or not, appearance plays a role in presidential politics. To put it as kindly as possible, Kucinich just doesn’t look or sound like the guy who will inspire people to rally behind him. (I can put it less kindly if you insist.) Saber-rattling has nothing to do with it. [/QUOTE] It’s one of the reasons why the tallest guy usually wins. Not always (note: GWB), but usually. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/86 "2006-12-15T23:20:54Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] **John Mace** has it exactly right. Like it or not, appearance plays a role in presidential politics. To put it as kindly as possible, Kucinich just doesn’t look or sound like the guy who will inspire people to rally behind him. (I can put it less kindly if you insist.) [/QUOTE] And the same phenomenon counts out Bill Richardson as well, I’m afraid. \* see: Dukakis, Michael\* ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/87 "2006-12-15T23:34:32Z")
[QUOTE=I Love Me, Vol. I] And the same phenomenon counts out Bill Richardson as well, I’m afraid. \* see: Dukakis, Michael\* [/QUOTE] I don’t see it Richardson-- he looks and acts like he couild kick some ass if he had to. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/88 "2006-12-16T00:50:01Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] **John Mace** has it exactly right. Like it or not, appearance plays a role in presidential politics. [/QUOTE] Oh, come on! We haven’t had a good-looking prez since JFK! (Reagan was good-looking . . . in the **'50s;** by 1980 he looked like a too-long-opened oyster that had drawn unwanted attentions from the cat.) In fact, American politicians by and large tend to be goofy-looking or downright ugly. (Lincoln’s ugliness was legendary and he himself told jokes about it; Henry Clay was distinguished by a mouth so wide that, as his contemporaries and colleagues noted, he could kiss two women and once; and Ben Franklin would never have won any Body Beautiful awards.) Who knows why? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/89 "2006-12-16T01:14:25Z")
It’s not a question of “ugliness” or “attractiveness” _per se_. You can be ugly and still project strength. Kucinich just looks scrawny and geeky. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/90 "2006-12-16T01:32:49Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] It’s not a question of “ugliness” or “attractiveness” _per se_. You can be ugly and still project strength. Kucinich just looks scrawny and geeky. [/QUOTE] So did Lincoln, but he still projected strength. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/91 "2006-12-16T01:39:31Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] So did Lincoln, but he still projected strength. [/QUOTE] Lincoln was 6’4" ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/92 "2006-12-16T01:43:21Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] It’s not a question of “ugliness” or “attractiveness” _per se_. You can be ugly and still project strength. Kucinich just looks scrawny and geeky. [/QUOTE] Exactly. This isn’t about handsome vs ugly. Some of the ugliest guys around can be pretty damn aggressive looking. ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/93 "2006-12-16T06:03:19Z")
Gee. Here I was under the impression that ‘Great Debates’ were supposed to be both. It’s looking a bit like schoolyard exchanges at the moment. To the question in the OP: I think Edwards is the best choice. Neither Obama (wrong colour) nor Clinton (wrong gender) will win it in '08. Maybe one of them in '12 if the incumbent doesn’t go for term 2. It’s pointless to wish for a wonderful world in which suddenly Americans will go completely against type and vote in someone that radically different. Not yet. Give it a few more years. In the meantime, you need product. Let’s dispense with the silly little imagining that politics is about electing the best man. It’s about marketing the best product. Edwards has it; he’s cute as a puppy, he’s got exactly the right accent, he’s got the right politics (anti-war, pro social justice), and he’s not at all a slime-sucking scumball. He made his name fighting for compensation for people who’d been badly injured through medical malpractice or negligence. Guy might as well be wearing a knight costume and riding a white horse. Thing is, he isn’t stupid, he is ethical as far as can be discerned, and he’s more experienced now. I think a wise Democrat would support him over the rest of the pack as an eminently electable prospect. My first choice would be Gore but since he won’t be back (he says, quite rightly, and as Clinton does, that one can accomplish more out of office than in these days) then I think Edwards is the perfect package. He’s personable which will sell him to people who like that in a President, but he’s not a moron, unlike the current POTUS. Let Edwards do a stint. Poor guy can’t hope to repair all the harm that’s been done to the US economy so he’ll be tossed out after one term because he’ll be blamed because the economy didn’t recover fast enough. Then the Dems can ride in with either Obama or Clinton and promise to save the day. I’d hate for Edwards to be cannon fodder but he’s young and will recover nicely. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/94 "2006-12-16T06:14:20Z")
[From Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edwards#Legal_career), so please someone let me know if it is accurate: > [@](#): > > Legal career > > Four Trials by John EdwardsBoth Edwards and his wife began private practice with law firms in Nashville, Tennessee. Edwards became an associate at the law firm of Dearborn & Ewing in 1978, doing primarily trial work, defending a Nashville bank and other corporate clients. The Edwards family (John, Elizabeth, and son Wade) returned to North Carolina in 1981, settling in the capital of Raleigh. > > Before entering politics, Edwards was a personal injury trial attorney. He represented families and children, and specialized in corporate negligence and medical malpractice claims. Edwards made his personal fortune through his trial successes and his 2003 financial disclosure forms showed a total net worth between $12.8 and $60 million.[1] Edwards was criticized for paying himself mostly through subchapter S corporate dividends, rather than a salary, to take advantage of a tax-law loophole that allowed him to avoid paying $591,000 in Medicare taxes; Edwards claimed that he chose the subchapter S structure to protect his assets from liability.[2] > > Edwards’ first important case was a 1984 medical malpractice lawsuit. In that case, Edwards won a $3.7 million verdict on behalf of his client who suffered permanent brain and nerve damage after a doctor prescribed a drug overdose of anti-alcoholism drug Antabuse.[3] In 1985, Edwards obtained a $5.75 million settlement in a cerebral palsy case for medical malpractice during childbirth. This established the North Carolina precedent of physician and hospital liability for failing to determine if patient understood risks of a particular procedure.[4] > > The biggest case of his legal career was a 1997 product liability lawsuit against Sta-Rite, the manufacturer of a defective pool drain cover. The case involved a Cary, North Carolina girl, Valerie Lakey, who was disemboweled by the suction power of the pool drain pump when she sat on an open pool drain whose protective cover other children at the pool had removed, after the municipality had failed to install the cover properly. Despite 12 prior suits with similar claims, Sta-Rite continued to make and sell drain covers lacking warnings. In his closing arguments, Edwards spoke to the jury for an hour and a half without referring to notes. It was an emotional appeal that made reference to his son, Wade, who had been killed shortly before testimony began in the trial. Mark Dayton, editor of North Carolina Lawyers Weekly, would later call it “the most impressive legal performance I have ever seen.”[5] The jury awarded the Lakeys $25 million, the largest personal injury award in North Carolina history. The company settled for the $25 million while the jury was deliberating punitive damages, rather than risk appeal. For their part in this case, Edwards and law partner David Kirby earned the Association of Trial Lawyers of America’s national award for public service.[6] > > In December 2003, during his presidential campaign, Edwards (with John Auchard) published Four Trials, a biographical book focusing on cases from his legal career. I guess some people find it admirable that he was so successful. I find it horrible that he succeeded in getting rich in such a fashion. I suspect I am not alone. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/95 "2006-12-16T06:30:28Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] I guess some people find it admirable that he was so successful. I find it horrible that he succeeded in getting rich in such a fashion. I suspect I am not alone. [/QUOTE] I don’t understand your reasoning. It’s horrible that he successfully represented people who were injured by the negligence of others? Should they not have made claims? You resent the fact that he got paid for his services? What exactly are you saying? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/96 "2006-12-16T06:38:36Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I don’t understand your reasoning. It’s horrible that he successfully represented people who were injured by the negligence of others? Should they not have made claims? You resent the fact that he got paid for his services? What exactly are you saying? [/QUOTE] I believe that he and the victims were grossly overpaid. I believe PI lawyers suck up way to much of the settlements. I believe that the $25 million dollar award to the grieving parents was excessive in the extreme. What was the grievous action of the pool company when it took an improper install and kids tampering with the drain cover to cause the horrible and tragic accident? Jim ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/97 "2006-12-16T06:52:24Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] What was the grievous action of the pool company when it took an improper install and kids tampering with the drain cover to cause the horrible and tragic accident? Jim [/QUOTE] From your own cite: > [@](#): > > **Despite 12 prior suits with similar claims, Sta-Rite continued to make and sell drain covers lacking warnings** Apparently, nothing short of a monetary smack across the chops could persuade this company to wise up. How many people needed to be injured before you’d think that maybe something needed to be done? Do you like the idea of a kid **disembowelled** by sitting on a drain? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/98 "2006-12-16T06:57:24Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] I believe that the $25 million dollar award to the grieving parents was excessive in the extreme. [/quote] Really? How much would someone have to pay you to let them disembowel your child? Something less than $25 million, I gather? > [@](#): > > I believe PI lawyers suck up way to much of the settlements. Did you see the part about the 12 prior unsuccessful suits against the drain company based on similar circumstances? Edwards took a huge risk. He took on a case that looked like a sure loser (based on past litigation) and he won it. He devoted years of his life to a case which he might not only have failed to be compensated at all, but might have lost a substantial amount of money by the time you figure in the out-of-pocket expenses he was likely fronting for his clients and his overhead in operating his law offices. Given the odds, he was a hero for even taking the case. Most lawyers wouldn’t have. And you do understand that for every big contingent fee a lawyer wins, he has likely had other several cases to which he has devoted considerable time, energy and money and which resulted in a zero verdict, a nominal verdict, or a dismissal? And do you understand that without a contingent fee system, the average person injured by the negligence of another would have no recourse? Most people can’t afford to pay hourly attorney’s fees for the months of attorney time it takes to get a case ready for trial. > [@](#): > > What was the grievous action of the pool company when it took an improper install and kids tampering with the drain cover to cause the horrible and tragic accident? With 12 prior similar incidents putting them on notice of a problem, the drain company could have prevented this child’s death (and insulated themselves from liability) by the simple expedient of a _warning_. I call it grievous that they failed to take such simple precautions knowing that people could die. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/99 "2006-12-16T06:59:40Z")
Sorry for all the typos. It’s past my bedtime. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147/100 "2006-12-16T07:11:23Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] And a person’s appearance and manner are a big part of that. [/quote] Manner yes; appearance, no. > [@](#): > > I never said I found him either attractive or unattractive-- those are your words. You said: > [@](#): > > He looks like the kid who got beat up on the playground all the time You said he _looks like_… You didn’t say “his manner is like…” What a person looks like has nothing to do with how strong he is. Abraham Lincoln was ugly as sin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2008-election-new-poll-puts-john-edwards-ahead-of-obama-clinton-mccain/384147.md?page=6)