# 2009 Election Results **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 4, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238 "2009-11-04T01:39:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/201 "2009-11-06T19:34:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Call it that if you like, but I think its a perversion and a threat to traditional politics. Don’t worry **'luc**. I laughed. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/202 "2009-11-06T19:44:19Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > She was, at one point. That she withdrew prior to the election is quite true. That does not somehow make a man running on a third party ticket who was supported by some Republican leaders “the Republican candidate” – to do that, he would have had to have the Republican ballot line, which he did not, even though he tried for it. > > Notice also that although the district is one of the largest in the East, he lived a few miles outside the district. A Conservative from St. Lawrence, Jefferson, or Oswego Coun6es (I know a few of them) would have had far better luck in getting the Republican line. Well this is kind of a pointless discussion. What I said, from the beginning was that he got the nod from the committee after Dede Scozzafava dropped out. All of this explaining of what everyone already knows is wasted breath. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/203 "2009-11-06T19:47:43Z")
So, apparently, losing two seats in the house is a moral victory for the GOP … is that right? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/204 "2009-11-06T19:50:17Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > So, apparently, losing two seats in the house is a moral victory for the GOP … is that right? As Atrios would say, _everything_ is good news for Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/205 "2009-11-06T20:39:25Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > So, apparently, losing two seats in the house is a moral victory for the GOP … is that right? Depending on your ideological purity and mental flexibility, yes, you can make any loss into a victory. Even if you just turned a victory into a loss. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/206 "2009-11-06T21:25:11Z")
[Rep. Bill Owens (D-NY) can be counted on as a “yes” in this weekend’s expected vote on the House Democrats’ health care bill, announcing his support in a press release.](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/owens-announces-support-for-house-dems-health-care-bill.php) This will surely doom the Democrats! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/207 "2009-11-07T03:03:52Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > You great ball of fetid iguana kidneys, . . . Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/208 "2009-11-07T04:53:54Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Are you talking California in your first sentence? Or are you completely clueless as to what actually was the case in the district (which I’ve known the politics of – for over a decade and a half, as a part of my job) intimately for probably as long as your parents have been alive. (Not a sneer at your youth – I’m establishing my credentials with reference to NY-23. I had to know the political climates of Oneida, Oswego, Lewis, Jefferson, and St. Lawrence Counties fairly thoroughly to do my assigned work for just short of seventeen years, and was involved in local politics a little for over a decade before that.) Dede Scozzafava is “left of Rockefeller” only to someone looking from farther right than Glenn Beck. > > As for same-sex marriage, I take it you are ignoring the fact that Vermont, Connecticut, and New Hampshire also have it in place, apparently without major outcry other than from a handful of agitators; that New Jersey, Washington, and California have equivalent institutions (civil union, domestic partnership); that all of Canada has had same-sex marriage for several years; that a growing number of European countries have it in place… Scozzafava was pro stimulus, pro-choice, and not very distinguishable from a normal Democrat. > [@Marley23](#): > > Wait a minute. Scozzafava was nominated by the Republican Party, _and_ she quit the race! How was _she_ meddling? If anyone interfered in the race, it was Hoffman (who initially sought the GOP nomination himself, and didn’t even live in the district he wanted to represent), and Palin, Pawlenty, _et al_. Just looking at the numbers, Hoffman hadn’t come in, a Republican would be holding that spot in Congress now instead of a Democrat. The majority of the Republicans supported Hoffman has shown in the vote totals but there wasn’t a primary system in place in the 23rd and more of a semi-caucus, party system. > [@](#): > > That’s political spin for you. Everybody always says they had a good night, no matter how transparently false it is. > You are one of the relatively few young people who is against gay marriage. In the coming years, a lot of voters are going to approve gay marriage. It may take longer than a lot of people would like, since younger people don’t generally vote that much, but as older voters die off, the electorate’s going to move in that direction. The majority of the kids at my school are anti-gay marriage. I don’t know if it’s because of traditional teenager nuttiness but still. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/209 "2009-11-07T15:09:42Z")
News for you: there are more than a few Republicans who are pro-choice, and some Democrats who are not. And favoring a stimulus package in an economic slump is not a horrible idea – even if you don’t particularly like the one hammered together by Obama, his cabinet, and Congressional leaders. As for Hoffman, if “[t]he majority of the Republicans [in NY-23 had] supported Hoffman,” as you allege, he’d be a Congressman today. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/210 "2009-11-07T16:25:54Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > News for you: there are more than a few Republicans who are pro-choice, and some Democrats who are not. And favoring a stimulus package in an economic slump is not a horrible idea – even if you don’t particularly like the one hammered together by Obama, his cabinet, and Congressional leaders. However she supported the Obama stimulus plan. Mind you I would support a stimulus plan but not the Obama Stimulus Plan. Also she’s pro-gay marriage and to top it all off she decided to withdraw from the race and endorse the Democratic candidate! > [@](#): > > As for Hoffman, if “[t]he majority of the Republicans [in NY-23 had] supported Hoffman,” as you allege, he’d be a Congressman today. No since there obviously are independents in that district and their vote was divided due to Scoffazava and her endorsement of Owens. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/211 "2009-11-07T18:44:56Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > No since there obviously are independents in that district and their vote was divided due to Scoffazava and her endorsement of Owens. Yeah, how dare she endorse the only remaining candidate who wasn’t an insane puritanical wingnut! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/212 "2009-11-07T18:50:40Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > However she supported the Obama stimulus plan. Mind you I would support a stimulus plan but not the Obama Stimulus Plan. People (including professional pundits and editorial writers, so I’m not singling you out here) seem to have a hard time grappling with the actual choices available to politicians. There’s rarely a menu of choices available. By the time legislation has worked its way through a committee or two, one’s favorite Pony Plan is no longer an option. The real choices were the Obama stimulus plan, or something pretty close, or nothing. I’m glad you’re for some sort of stimulus, though. Once the Fed’s interest rate is up against the 0% lower bound, cutting interest rates further to stimulate the economy is no longer an option. When nobody’s willing to spend money, the only way to generate demand is for the government to step in and spend. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/213 "2009-11-08T03:45:57Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Rep. Bill Owens (D-NY) can be counted on as a “yes” in this weekend’s expected vote on the House Democrats’ health care bill, announcing his support in a press release.](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/owens-announces-support-for-house-dems-health-care-bill.php) > > This will surely doom the Democrats! This is clearly good news for the McCain campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/214 "2009-11-08T04:57:31Z")
Of course Hoffman wasn’t the Republican candidate. Clearly, the Republican candidate was the one chosen by the Republican party, and after she left the race, the Republican candidate was the candidate she endorsed. So clearly, we can see that Owens was actually the Republican candidate in that race. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/215 "2009-11-08T05:17:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course Hoffman wasn’t the Republican candidate. Clearly, the Republican candidate was the one chosen by the Republican party, and after she left the race, the Republican candidate was the candidate she endorsed. So clearly, we can see that Owens was actually the Republican candidate in that race. [For your Pretzel](http://www.wpr.org/news/images/OuttaMustard.JPG) ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/216 "2009-11-08T07:54:40Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Mind you I would support a stimulus plan but not the Obama Stimulus Plan. It’s hilarious to me that you appear to think a Republican stimulus plan (if, say, McCain had won the election) would have been philosophically all that fundamentally different from Obama’s plan. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/217 "2009-11-08T23:06:03Z")
The dems picked up 2 congressional seats. That was ignored when the righties screamed about Obama’s repudiation. But the health care bill was 220 to 215. That is a lot more significant than the governors seats. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/218 "2009-11-08T23:18:31Z")
Scozzafava also supported Card-Check and Cap and Trade. In fact, I can’t think of a major Democratic initiative she didn’t support. Can anyone name one? The problem in NY-23 is that she was chosen by 11 party officials in a closed process, and she was immediately and widely opposed by the Republicans in the electorate. We’ll probably never know why the party leaders chose her, but it was clearly a very bad choice. Had they picked Hoffman from the beginning, he’d be in the Congress right now. Incidentally, and slightly off-topic, can anyone explain to me how they can be both for a $787 billion stimulus bill, AND a trillion dollar tax program like Cap and Trade, which has to be one of the most anti-stimulative bills ever proposed in the Congress? It makes absolutely no sense. You cannot on the one hand claim that the economic situation is so dire that you need to borrow almost a trillion dollars and spend it willy-nilly to keep the economy afloat, then turn around and support a bill that would impose massive taxes on the very sectors of the economy that are hurting the most. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/219 "2009-11-09T00:23:33Z")
The [Wikipedia article on Dede Scozzafava](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dierdre_Scozzafava) jibes with what I remember from my days dealing with Northern New York politics. I’d call it accurate and balanced. The “11 party officials” were the chairmen of the county Republican Party committees in the 11 counties in the district, not a random group of power brokers. I would not be surprised to find that they were John McHugh’s Vacancy Committee, the group mandated by New York law who decides what happens to a candidacy in the event the incumbent dies, withdraws, resigns, etc. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/220 "2009-11-09T09:47:10Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Incidentally, and slightly off-topic, can anyone explain to me how they can be both for a $787 billion stimulus bill, AND a trillion dollar tax program like Cap and Trade, which has to be one of the most anti-stimulative bills ever proposed in the Congress? It makes absolutely no sense. You cannot on the one hand claim that the economic situation is so dire that you need to borrow almost a trillion dollars and spend it willy-nilly to keep the economy afloat, then turn around and support a bill that would impose massive taxes on the very sectors of the economy that are hurting the most. Timing. The weak-ass cap’s effects would be negligible for the next _decade_. And when it finally does, the \*trade \*part kicks in. People will pay other people money for carbon permits. The money paid doesn’t disappear from the economy, unless you think the recipients of that money will just stuff it into a black hole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238.md?page=12)