# 2009 Election Results **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 4, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238 "2009-11-04T01:39:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/141 "2009-11-04T20:47:10Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > If Virginia didn’t have the ridiculous consecutive term rule, does anyone think McDonnell would have defeated Kaine? > > In New Jersey, Corzine’s defeat seems to reflect on him and the economy as opposed to any great enthusiasm for Christie. Christie’s platform had little specifics; he basically told the voters: vote for me, I’m not John Corzine and when I get elected I’ll fix shit. Of course the problem he has now is that he actually has to FIX shit. Running on that platform may get him the big chair, but he will have to have better ideas then the guy he replaced and being a conservative that ain’t likely. ---
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/142 "2009-11-04T20:48:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This is getting nitpicky, but no, that’s not the same thing. We all know Hoffman got endorsements from prominent Republicans - that’s what made the race interesting. He was not the candidate chosen by the Republican party in New York, and he didn’t have the little “R” next to his name, so he should not be called “the Republican candidate.” In that case, you’re right. (I don’t really have anything to add, I just don’t want to look like I’m ignoring it when I’m wrong. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/143 "2009-11-04T20:48:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oooh! Oooh! Can you tell us the one about how America is a center-right country, and how Obama’s win doesn’t really mean anything? That’s my favorite! America is a center county, relative to the two parties. Not center-right. Not center-left. Anyone claiming otherwise, e.g. RTFirefly, is engaging in wishful thinking. A lot of partisans engage in wishful thinking though, so his sentiments are no doubt common here. Quite possibly you share them yourself, not realizing the inconsistency of your position. (People who try to prove from Obama’s election that the US is a progressive country are likely not the same people who would prove from GWB’s election that the US is a right-wing country. No, there are all sorts of _other_ reasons for _that_ …) Practical considerations keep the two parties within about the same distance from center, in their respective directions. It’s an evolutionary law of politics, in a democracy. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Obama won very decisively. It wasn’t a nail biter. It certainly wasn’t a nail biter, but it wasn’t such a broad margin that it proves that the country in general is receptive to progressive campaigns (versus more center/moderate ones) even had Obamam run one - which is RTFirefly’s position - especially in light of other factors that helped him. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/144 "2009-11-04T20:49:38Z")
Never mind, wrong antecedent for the post. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/145 "2009-11-04T21:05:30Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It’s funny that anyone is still stupid enough to say that Obama didn’t run an issues based campaign. I’ve attached a few quotes from the debates, just to refresh your memory. Obama did spend a lot of time and effort to paint McCain with the George Bush brush. > [@](#): > > Now, we also have to recognize that this is a final verdict on eight years of failed economic policies promoted by George Bush, supported by Senator McCain, a theory that basically says that we can shred regulations and consumer protections and give more and more to the most, and somehow prosperity will trickle down. > [@](#): > > And over time, that, I think, is going to be a better recipe for economic growth than the – the policies of President Bush that John McCain wants to – wants to follow. > [@](#): > > We hadn’t caught bin Laden. We hadn’t put al Qaeda to rest, and as a consequence, I thought that it was going to be a distraction. Now Senator McCain and President Bush had a very different judgment. > [@](#): > > No. 3, we’ve got to deal with Pakistan, because al Qaeda and the Taliban have safe havens in Pakistan, across the border in the northwest regions, and although, you know, under George Bush, with the support of Senator McCain, we’ve been giving them $10 billion over the last seven years, they have not done what needs to be done to get rid of those safe havens. > [@](#): > > And I believe this is a final verdict on the failed economic policies of the last eight years, strongly promoted by President Bush and supported by Sen. McCain, that essentially said that we should strip away regulations, consumer protections, let the market run wild, and prosperity would rain down on all of us. > [@](#): > > And Sen. McCain voted for four out of five of those George Bush budgets. > [@](#): > > So when Sen. McCain proposes a $300 billion tax cut, a continuation not only of the Bush tax cuts, > [@](#): > > That’s going to change when I’m president, but we can’t change it unless we fundamentally change Sen. McCain’s and George Bush’s foreign policy. > [@](#): > > Sen. McCain and President Bush suggested that it wasn’t that important to catch bin Laden right now and that we could muddle through, and that has cost us dearly. Unfortunately, taking the quotes out of the full debate context also removes the non-sequitor-ness of them. He really stretched to get a GWB mention in there on some of those. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/146 "2009-11-04T21:07:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > All the fag-bashing referendums got Bush reelected in 2004, so tactically it has been effective for them. Hate is always a very effective political tool – maybe the _most_ effective – and the GOP has used it to great success since the advent of Reagan and the Moral Majority. > > The problem is that the Democrats don’t do hate very well. They haven’t cultivated any target groups like GLBT people or Mexican laborors to blame all of the nation’s problems on and turn out the rubes with the pitchforks. They **could.** They could make it all about class and power, and demonize the superrich and the corporate interests, [like it was done to a very limited degree in the New Deal.](http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2009/can_obama_give_em_hell_its_too_late_17211) > [@](#): > > “We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace: business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering,” President Franklin Roosevelt told an audience in Madison Square Garden in 1936. “They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob. Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me and I welcome their hatred.” Which, apart from having electoral appeal, would actually make sense. But it hasn’t been done since the FDR years and it won’t be; the corporate interests own **both** parties now, the only difference being that the Dems are not **wholly** -owned. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/147 "2009-11-04T21:09:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is bullshit righty canard #18896. It’s no more bullshit than saying that we hate GLBT’s and Mexican laborers. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/148 "2009-11-04T21:13:28Z")
More’s the pity. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/149 "2009-11-04T21:16:53Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > You do realize that when Scozzafava dropped out Hoffman became the Republican Candidate right? Not enough time to reprint the ballot. The election had Scozzafava as the Republican Candidate. Now, Hoffman became _sponsored_ by the Republicans, and the one the Republicans wanted to win, but I’m pretty sure that no, Hoffman was not the person getting the votes that were given to the person in the Republican slot in the voting machine. In fact, I’m pretty sure the result was roughly Owens 49, Hoffman 46, Scozzafava 5. So… I’m pretty sure you have no idea what you’re talking about. Unless I’m wrong. And I don’t think I am. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/150 "2009-11-04T21:20:21Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Of course the problem he has now is that he actually has to FIX shit. Running on that platform may get him the big chair, but he will have to have better ideas then the guy he replaced and being a conservative that ain’t likely. Yeah, there’s no way Christie’s gonna be able to pull off his promises. He’s probably going to try to make it look good for a few years, then springboard to the Senate. Then the state crashes and burns. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/151 "2009-11-04T21:25:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > All politics are getting less local in my opinion. But yes, the press seems to completely discount little things like the personalities of the candidates, the local issues, and most of the other things that make up a campaign other than a few soundbytes, maybe a scandal, and the nonstop polling. I’m in northern VA and can attest to this. The biggest 2 issues in VA for this election were taxes (statewide) and traffic (DC area and Hampton Roads area). I was watching CNN and Fox news last night and all of the pundits were all Obama this and Obama that. Nobody mentioned traffic. Now you might think that traffic is a stupid thing to hinge an election on but around here more people discuss traffic than the weather. The Dems mistake was trying to frame the issues as a referendum on social policy. Deeds kept runing ads about “Thesis! thesis! What about the thesis!” and McDonnell was talking about traffic and taxes. Dems: “Right-wing extremist!” McDonnell: talking to many different ethnic groups and winning them over. My wife is Korean and her whole social group was for McDonnell. The Washington Post came out with its “bigot” editorial and one of the local Dem Reps. call the GOP slate the “Taliban Ticket.” Perception means a lot and poll after poll showed that people perceived the Dem ticket running a negative campaign and the GOP slate “addressing issues.” That speaks more to what happened in VA rather than any sort of referendum on Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/152 "2009-11-04T22:01:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Come, now, you must have more imagination than **that!** 😉 Touché. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/153 "2009-11-04T22:49:20Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > It’s no more bullshit than saying that we hate GLBT’s and Mexican laborers. Let me know when the Democrats start putting referendums on state ballots to take rights away from rich people, or start fielding militias to shoot at them. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/154 "2009-11-04T22:59:07Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > It’s no more bullshit than saying that we hate GLBT’s and Mexican laborers. Hate. Scapegoat. Potato, potatoe. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/155 "2009-11-04T23:36:32Z")
The simple fact is that historically people have always voted out the party in office (with a few exceptions) when the economy sucks. This is why people voted for Mr Obama. Not because they liked him much. Hillary or any Democratic candidate would’ve won. The economy drives elections historically. The economy is worse this year than last year, despite what anyone says. The banks and credit cards are still running amok abusing their clients, jobs are picking up, but they are part time jobs and people are still vastly underemployed as well as not working. This is simply a reaction to the bad economy. All the anylysis of the “new era” with Mr Obama was totally ignoring the historical fact the economy drove the '08 election. Add to this Mr Obama has been in 10 months and hasn’t actually done anything yet, except pass the credit card bill which 'caused more problems for conumers than helped them, at least in the immediate. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/156 "2009-11-05T02:30:13Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > The simple fact is that historically people have always voted out the party in office (with a few exceptions) when the economy sucks. This is why people voted for Mr Obama. Not because they liked him much. Hillary or any Democratic candidate would’ve won. > > The economy drives elections historically. The economy is worse this year than last year, despite what anyone says. The banks and credit cards are still running amok abusing their clients, jobs are picking up, but they are part time jobs and people are still vastly underemployed as well as not working. > > This is simply a reaction to the bad economy. All the anylysis of the “new era” with Mr Obama was totally ignoring the historical fact the economy drove the '08 election. Add to this Mr Obama has been in 10 months and hasn’t actually done anything yet, except pass the credit card bill which 'caused more problems for conumers than helped them, at least in the immediate. You’re remarkably confident the Credit CARD act has been harmful when you stop to consider that it doesn’t even take effect until February. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/157 "2009-11-05T02:38:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Let me know when the Democrats start putting referendums on state ballots to take rights away from rich people, or start fielding militias to shoot at them. Let **me** know, too! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/158 "2009-11-05T02:49:45Z")
I don’t much care for this whole “militia” aspect, I think it should be altogether more festive. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/159 "2009-11-05T02:50:55Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > America is a center county, relative to the two parties. Not center-right. Not center-left. Anyone claiming otherwise, e.g. RTFirefly, is engaging in wishful thinking. So those polls I linked to, that showed the Republicans polling in the single digits and teens everywhere but the South, they were “wishful thinking”? Whatever. > [@](#): > > Practical considerations keep the two parties within about the same distance from center, in their respective directions. It’s an evolutionary law of politics, in a democracy. That’s somewhat different from a law of physics, I hope you realize. People, parties, movements don’t have to heed “practical considerations.” An evolutionary law can be flouted in the short run; it’s just that the result is a dimunition of the species. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238/160 "2009-11-05T03:12:50Z")
There was an off-year election? Correction, since “off-year” implies it being an even number. There was an off-off-year election? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-election-results/516238.md?page=9)