# 2009 Kentucky Derby **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 27, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568 "2009-04-27T23:28:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/21 "2009-05-02T23:58:36Z")
I liked the look of this horse during Post Parade. And the trainer kinda reminded me of Henry from the “Black Stallion” series telling reporters “I didn’t bring a goat to the Derby!” (in Black Stallion’s Filly)(ok, that was nerdy). I love that the jockey won the Kentucky Oaks\* yesterday, and while being strong contender for the Triple Tiara\*\*, has a non-zero chance at the Triple Crown too. \*The top stakes race for fillies \*\*the triple crown for fillies ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/22 "2009-05-03T00:30:33Z")
Unfortunately, I didn’t have Mine That Bird (well, I did - I bet $2 across the board for my wife’s grandmother), because I can read the Racing Form - which turned out to be a major disadvantage for picking this result. I’ve been going to the races for 30+ years, and that was the least pickable result in a major race I have ever seen. Giacomo at a similar 50-1 in the 2005 Derby was an easy pick compared to this (and I didn’t have him either). Mine That Bird should have been well over 100-1. Giacomo prepped for the Derby with an OK 4th in the Santa Anita Derby, a major race; Mine That Bird prepped with a 4th in the Sunland Derby, a third-tier prep in New Mexico. NO handicapping angle could have seen this coming. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/23 "2009-05-03T00:41:41Z")
Welll, I wouldn’t say that. Mine That Bird was the top 2-year old of 2008 in Canada. Dave Cotey, his trainer in Canada, brought him to 3 stakes wins in that year and got the shout-out from his present owner in the winner’s circle. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/24 "2009-05-03T02:36:44Z")
> [@tarragon918](#): > > Kentucky Derby Day is always a sentimental day for me, and I almost always watch the Derby. One year we had moved in February – this was in Michigan, mind you – and we didn’t get a tv antenna up until the spring, so the first thing we could really watch on TV after that move was the Derby, as they had set it up the day before. Naturally this was waaaay back in the late 50s when you needed an antenna to get tv stations on your tv. LOL > > What a great race! The jockey was a hoot, but what a great ride for both him and the horse, who seemed to come out of nowhere. I would have loved to have even a $2 bet on him. Good job. 🙂 Give him some extra hay and an apple tonight for sure. LOL YOu were ALIVE in the 50’s!!! Did Kukla, Fran or Ollie jockey the horse? I gots to know! ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/25 "2009-05-03T02:40:45Z")
I always watch the Derby, rarely guess the winner. I was rooting for Dunkirk and General Quarters. What bugs me about the coverage is it’s all about everything except the horses! We got barely a quick look at them before the race. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/26 "2009-05-03T03:34:49Z")
If anybody had the super trifecta, they won over half a million dollars. :eek: Magnificent win. The jockey had me giggling uncontrollably. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/27 "2009-05-03T06:16:12Z")
Boy, Mine That Bird is one of my least-favorite Derby-winner names. Of the winners in my lifetime, I would say that Lil E. Tee is the only one I think is definitely worse. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/28 "2009-05-03T07:13:39Z")
I just watched the video; the guy calling the race was absolutely awful. I think he misidentified Mine That Bird on the backstretch, Then there was the winning move along the rail and a couple lengths in front before he even noticed. I know it’s a tough job. I couldn’t see which horse was which for most of the race. But still, they’re usually much better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/29 "2009-05-03T12:32:57Z")
I wonder if the track conditions didn’t have something to do with that. Hard to ID horses and silks when they’re all mud-colored. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/30 "2009-05-03T14:31:57Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I just watched the video; the guy calling the race was absolutely awful. I think he misidentified Mine That Bird on the backstretch, Then there was the winning move along the rail and a couple lengths in front before he even noticed. > > I know it’s a tough job. I couldn’t see which horse was which for most of the race. But still, they’re usually much better than that. I was looking forward to hearing that British dude call the race like he did for the earlier ones. But no, NBC insists we hear _their_announcer. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/31 "2009-05-03T14:54:36Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > Unfortunately, I didn’t have Mine That Bird (well, I did - I bet $2 across the board for my wife’s grandmother), because I can read the Racing Form - which turned out to be a major disadvantage for picking this result. > > I’ve been going to the races for 30+ years, and that was the least pickable result in a major race I have ever seen. Giacomo at a similar 50-1 in the 2005 Derby was an easy pick compared to this (and I didn’t have him either). Mine That Bird should have been well over 100-1. Giacomo prepped for the Derby with an OK 4th in the Santa Anita Derby, a major race; Mine That Bird prepped with a 4th in the Sunland Derby, a third-tier prep in New Mexico. NO handicapping angle could have seen this coming. Agreed. As another who can read the DRF, I was asked by a friend prior to the race what I thought of Mine That Bird. I sat him down with the Derby PPs and Form commentary, and pointed out exactly why Mine That Bird couldn’t win the race. He had a good time later explaining to others that he picked the Derby winner, but “I didn’t bet him, on Spoons’ recommendation.” Well, he was laughing about it, and we all had a good time playing the race. But there was no way any reasonable handicapper could have found a reason to play this horse. On the other hand, I did select and bet the second-place horse as the bottom half of my exactor. Not having the top half, I didn’t win the bet, but at least I got one of them. You take your victories where you can in situations like this. ---
**Author:** ![mikeargo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/858c86/32.png) [@mikeargo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikeargo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/32 "2009-05-03T14:59:14Z")
Was there anything in the Daily Racing Form that would have been a plus for Mind That Bird? Breeding for a muddy track, workouts, or anything like that? And what was a top jock like Calvin Borel doing on a “hopeless” longshot? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/33 "2009-05-03T19:43:30Z")
I can’t answer your second question, **mikeargo** , but as to the first–if I had to find something positive, it would be the following points: – Steadily increasing Beyers. Well, reasonably so, anyway–up and down a couple of points here and there isn’t anything to be concerned with. He went from 46 to the 70s for a few races, then went up to the 80s. This is a good sign. I doubted, though, whether he would be able to run a 100+ Beyer in the Derby, given that his prior two outings were only in the 80s. – His Canadian honours. He did well at Woodbine (in Toronto), which is on par with Churchill, Belmont, Santa Anita, and other major American tracks in terms of the class of horses that typically run there. True, the Grey Stakes (G3, 5Oct08), the Swynford (14Sep08), and the Silver Deputy (23Aug08) are not major stakes, but they’re not cheap claiming races either. He made two maiden race attempts at Woodbine, each time for a 62.5K purse–so even early in his career, it was obvious to somebody that he had something that justified running in expensive races. Unfortunately, those facts couldn’t overshadow what looked to me like many more negative things. In his winning races, he was a “closer,” but he didn’t close in every race, and had been known to fade badly. His workouts were okay; nothing spectacular. DRF trouble line comments such as “weakened,” “broke inward,” and “wide trip” did not predispose me to him. His last outing was for $900K at 1 1/8 miles, and he finished fourth–this was the race that prompted the “weakened” comment. That race represented a big jump in class for him and if he weakened in the last furlong of a race that was shorter then the Derby and against horses of a lesser class than he’d meet in the Derby, then in spite of the two points I cited above, he didn’t look like much of a threat at all. Certainly not worth wagering on. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/34 "2009-05-03T21:08:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I was looking forward to hearing that British dude call the race like he did for the earlier ones. But no, NBC insists we hear _their_announcer. “That British dude” would be [Mark Johnson](http://www.churchilldowns.com/news/archives/britains-mark-johnson-named-churchill-downs-track-announcer). I don’t know who the NBC announcer was but we were commenting afterward about how he got blind-sided. You’ll sometimes hear “somebody’s moving up on the inside” if they’re in a bunch and the caller can’t figure it out from the cap color, but more often you’ll get the horse’s name right away. This guy was totally clueless until Mine That Bird was a length and a half in front of the pack. On to the Preakness. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/35 "2009-05-03T22:10:16Z")
I drew Mine That Bird in the $1 pool we had at our party. I had been talking trash before the race–“You can draw if you want, but I already drew the winner. Mine That Bird, baby!” I was more shocked than anybody that he actually won. (Unfortunately I only won $18. I never would have bet on him at the track.) That’s the weirdness that happens when you have 19 horses racing on a sloppy track when most of them aren’t used to real dirt, much less mud. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/36 "2009-05-04T00:13:57Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > Boy, Mine That Bird is one of my least-favorite Derby-winner names. Of the winners in my lifetime, I would say that Lil E. Tee is the only one I think is definitely worse. Gee, and here I was thinking it was one of my favorites ever. Probably because it makes me think of a Sesame Street movie taking place in West Virginia. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/37 "2009-05-04T13:05:17Z")
I was surprised to learn Mine That Bird is a gelding (but probably not as surprised as the horse himself after the operation). English classics, and some other Grade 1 races, restrict entries to entire horses and fillies because a victory by a gelding does nothing for stud values. Mine That Bird is, in fact, the ninth such horse to win the Kentucky Derby. I’ve learned something new. ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/38 "2009-05-04T13:47:40Z")
A gelding can be a representative of his own sire/dam and could still affect stud fees. As a three year old, whoever owns his dam, if she is still breedable, just got a nice jump in her value. Not to mention both Grindstone and Birdstone, already “millionaire” horses can expect more bookings this year. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/39 "2009-05-04T14:25:19Z")
Oh what torture hindsight is! Had I been at the track I would have put money on Calvin Borel, just because he’s such a doll. I wish I’d driven out to Keeneland, where they’ve got _drive through betting_. When he won in 2007 on Street Sense he got to meet Queen Elizabeth. And he was on the winning filly at the Oaks, too. Love me some Calvin. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568/40 "2009-05-05T13:44:38Z")
I’ve gotta say that was one of the more entertaining Derbys I’ve seen in awhile. Calvin Borel’s enthusiasm was not to be missed but the sheer speed with which Mine That Bird streaked by the front runners was jaw droppingly amazing. _That_ was one hell of a race. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2009-kentucky-derby/494568.md?page=1)