# 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677 "2010-06-10T17:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 111
**Author:** ![footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9f8e36/32.png) [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2201 "2010-07-03T00:10:40Z")
Well, I’m really happy now. I thought we had no chance at half time, but we came back at the Brazies in the second half. Whatever anyone is saying, this was a proper quarter final, with bith teams gieving everything. I personally thought the ref was brilliant in a very dificult game and both team trying to get as much possible. I honestly don’t know hwo we won, the first half we were mullererd by the Braziliand; but we sort of came back in the second half. This game also showede Brazil had no plan b, as they couldn’t create anything after the 2-1. We got them eventually and should have been far ahead at the ened. Now we have only Uruguay and one proper adversary before the cup to end all cups. I don’t know if we’ll win, but me abd Svejk are all about the win that will hapen and cannot be stopped. even by the tickytacka of red furies boys. If you’re not going down before, you will against us. OK, please keep in mind I’m quite drunk now (Go Holland) and don’t come with rational argents on why the red bore will beat us in the end (great final though), HOLLAND FOR ITS FIRST TITLE! ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2202 "2010-07-03T00:11:21Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Yep it is entirely different. Diving = rolling around crying like a 3 year old girls claiming her brother pushed her so she can get more ice cream, taking advantage of rules put there to protect players, and often giving up any chance to actually score because the dive is easier= pussy. Doing every thing you can without injuring someone to keep your team alive in a pure do-or-die situation, then taking the penalty quietly and walking off=good play. Nice neutral description of the two kinds of foul. Do players who dive also tread on babies as they stumble over? While suarez was just trying to protect the dialysis machine that was behind the goal? In case the point’s not obvious, you can easily reverse the roles here. Diving in the opponent’s box might be a do or die situation: last minute of the game, you’re 1-0 down, you’ve miscontrolled the ball, but also received a light touch from a defending player. You’re not there to be the good guy, you’re there to win etc etc ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2203 "2010-07-03T00:38:20Z")
Diving is an attempt to fool the referee, and get a reward (eg penalty) that you had no right to. A professional foul is an honest move: you know the consequences, and are fully prepared to accept them. Diving is dishonest, professional fouls aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2204 "2010-07-03T00:43:31Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I assumed the tone of the sentence made it clear I was being hyperbolic, Sorry. My bad, then. Sorry back. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2205 "2010-07-03T00:55:54Z")
Deliberate fouls happen in every game and by every player, pulling a jersey, a deliberately late foul, a slight shove in the back as you go up for a header. Yes I suppose that is the case, then this sport and pretty much every sport is full of cheaters adn I see no reason to single out Uruguay. In my opinon a cheater is someone who knowingly breaks the rules with the express intention of not getting caught. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2206 "2010-07-03T01:31:35Z")
> [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#): > > Well, I’m really happy now. I thought we had no chance at half time, but we came back at the Brazies in the second half. Whatever anyone is saying, this was a proper quarter final, with bith teams gieving everything. I personally thought the ref was brilliant in a very dificult game and both team trying to get as much possible. I honestly don’t know hwo we won, the first half we were mullererd by the Braziliand; but we sort of came back in the second half. This game also showede Brazil had no plan b, as they couldn’t create anything after the 2-1. We got them eventually and should have been far ahead at the ened. Now we have only Uruguay and one proper adversary before the cup to end all cups. Congrats buddy! As I said before, you’ve been my second favorite team for many a year now. Must admit, I hope to be feeling like you at about 5:00 P.M. 2morrow. > [@](#): > > _I don’t know if we’ll win, but me abd Svejk are all about the win that will hapen and cannot be stopped. even by the tickytacka of red furies boys. If you’re not going down before, you will against us._ Remember what the Ruskies did to you? Well, now think of what we did to the Ruskies _twice_. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. 😉 > [@](#): > > \*OK, please keep in mind I’m quite drunk now (Go Holland) and don’t come with rational argents on why the red bore will beat us in the end (great final though), HOLLAND FOR ITS FIRST TITLE! No arguments from me ATM. Enjoy! ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2207 "2010-07-03T01:34:23Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Diving is an attempt to fool the referee, and get a reward (eg penalty) that you had no right to. > A professional foul is an honest move: you know the consequences, and are fully prepared to accept them. > Diving is dishonest, professional fouls aren’t. I think this distinction is pretty artificial. Firstly, as a practical matter, players who handball usually try to get away with it; I’ve never seen an outfield player _catch_ the ball, say. They usually try to do it in a way the ref may not notice. Secondly, players who commit professional fouls are rewarded too; they commit such fouls because the benefits are perceived as greater than the drawbacks (or risks). Given the definition of “foul” this doesn’t seem right; and the fact that other sports like basketball may have a similar flaw doesn’t make it reasonable. Finally, “you know the consequences” and all that is similar for simulation. You take a risk, for your team. Another example might be the 1982 w.germany austria game. They didn’t break any rules, but their behaviour was widely deplored. Why, when what they did was “professional”? ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2208 "2010-07-03T01:49:51Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Many people on this thread have complained about players diving, without comeback from anyone trying to defend the practice. > > But apparently, the game-deciding deliberate foul by Suarez was entirely different, and showed great team spirit. And anyone that thinks otherwise is a wimpering simpleton that doesn’t understand football. The problem with diving is, it’s dishonest, and it only works if the referee makes an error. Not to mention, you’re targeting some perfectly innocent opposing player, and possibly making him sit out in his next game. Very different, in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2209 "2010-07-03T01:52:18Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > The problem with diving is, it’s dishonest, and it only works if the referee makes an error. Not to mention, you’re targeting some perfectly innocent opposing player, and possibly making him sit out in his next game. Very different, in my mind. Forget it **straight man** , he doesn’t get it, I suppose if he was Suarez he would let the ball in, and so his team would be eliminated in 4th finals. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2210 "2010-07-03T02:01:16Z")
It’s a matter of don’t hate the player, hate the game. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2211 "2010-07-03T02:02:28Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Anyway,\*\* that handball was about 90 secoinds after regulation time\*\*, and no way was there 90 seconds to add on to a period of extra time. The game was already over at that point, by rights. Stupid unwritten rules. I wanted to address this before, but forgot. You are, quite simply, wrong about this. Here are two screenshots, taken directly from the ESPN coverage of the game here in the United States. The first shows the free kick on its way into the penalty area; the second shows the header on its way toward goal, just before Suarez stops it with his hands. [Free Kick: 120:15](https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public_html/gen_images/uru_gha_1.jpg) [Handball: 120:20](https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public_html/gen_images/uru_gha_2.jpg) So, the handball was 20 seconds into time-added-on after the overtime. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2212 "2010-07-03T02:11:14Z")
A propos to nothing, this game only makes me hate PKs more. I mean, yikes, that was just a stupid way to end it. ETA: actually, I had an idea for making PKs less detestable. Put the ball a few metres farther back (to make it harder for the kicker and more fair to the goal keeper) and make it ten rounds instead of five — every player on the field for the team has to take a go, no substitutions allowed. If one team has players missing (red carded, I mean), the other team gets to choose which of its players won’t give a kick. It wouldn’t make me like PKs, but it would still be an improvement in my mind. EATA: the announcer today was claiming that players hate penalty kicks. I can imagine why. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2213 "2010-07-03T02:18:29Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I think this distinction is pretty artificial. > Firstly, as a practical matter, players who handball usually try to get away with it; I’ve never seen an outfield player _catch_ the ball, say. They usually try to do it in a way the ref may not notice. > > Secondly, players who commit professional fouls are rewarded too; they commit such fouls because the benefits are perceived as greater than the drawbacks (or risks). Given the definition of “foul” this doesn’t seem right; and the fact that other sports like basketball may have a similar flaw doesn’t make it reasonable. > > Finally, “you know the consequences” and all that is similar for simulation. You take a risk, for your team. > > Another example might be the 1982 w.germany austria game. They didn’t break any rules, but their behaviour was widely deplored. Why, when what they did was “professional”? The key part is _dishonest_. A handball on the line will almost never be missed by the referee. Diving is an attempt to con the referee. As for the Germany Austria game, there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with the conduct of either team - their goal is to qualify, not to entertain. They both achieved that goal. That was the result of a badly-designed tournament; not cheating. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2214 "2010-07-03T03:19:33Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I wanted to address this before, but forgot. > > You are, quite simply, wrong about this. > > Here are two screenshots, taken directly from the ESPN coverage of the game here in the United States. The first shows the free kick on its way into the penalty area; the second shows the header on its way toward goal, just before Suarez stops it with his hands. > > [Free Kick: 120:15](https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public_html/gen_images/uru_gha_1.jpg) > > [Handball: 120:20](https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public_html/gen_images/uru_gha_2.jpg) > > So, the handball was 20 seconds into time-added-on after the overtime. And it was awarded before extra time expired. It just took a while. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2215 "2010-07-03T04:58:16Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > The problem with diving is, it’s dishonest, and it only works if the referee makes an error. Thank you. I wish I had put it that well. An action taken with the primary goal of deceiving the ref in violation of the rules = shit. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2216 "2010-07-03T05:46:51Z")
What an awful finale to the URU-GHA game. I guess it was the “smart” thing to do, but I still think he should get booted for the duration of the tournament. So will everyone get over calling it “football” since, apparently, it’s perfectly okay to change the outcome of the game by handling the ball? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2217 "2010-07-03T07:54:14Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Diving is an attempt to fool the referee, and get a reward (eg penalty) that you had no right to. > A professional foul is an honest move: you know the consequences, and are fully prepared to accept them. > Diving is dishonest, professional fouls aren’t. The rules of sport aren’t a tax code, and the players aren’t supposed to look for loopholes like attorneys. The point of rules in sports is to put forth how the game should be played. Sporting players should do their best to adhere to those rules. “Professional Fouls” are an offense against the game because it changes the outcome from the best player to the best rules manipulator. Uruguay took advantage of the deficiency of the severity of a punishment, not any weakness of their opponent to win the game. That is what the people don’t like about this. Uruguay didn’t win because they were better footballers, they won because they exploited a loophole. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2218 "2010-07-03T08:35:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [QUOTE=mhendo] > I wanted to address this before, but forgot. > > You are, quite simply, wrong about this. > > Here are two screenshots, taken directly from the ESPN coverage of the game here in the United States. The first shows the free kick on its way into the penalty area; the second shows the header on its way toward goal, just before Suarez stops it with his hands. > > Free Kick: 120:15 > > Handball: 120:20 > > So, the handball was 20 seconds into time-added-on after the overtime. And it was awarded before extra time expired. It just took a while. [/QUOTE] Yeah, you’re right. The _penalty_ was taken 90 seconds after full time, but there’s nothing wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2219 "2010-07-03T08:59:26Z")
Two fantastic games. Pretty well all of Africa on the edge of their seats - and a lot of the rest of us as well. Impossible drama at the end. Heart-stopping, heart-breaking. And what a beautiful, absurd contrast today; Argentina vs. Germany! \ THIS is what it’s all about. ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2220 "2010-07-03T09:13:02Z")
Who will win tonight ? Argentina or Germany ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=110) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=112)