# 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677 "2010-06-10T17:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 120
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2381 "2010-07-07T00:50:07Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I’m not impressed with this without seeing comparisons with other balls. Yeah, for a ball with such an unpredictable response, the players in this game sure gave the illusion of being able to shoot accurately. On the ITV website there was a lot of discussion about the ball after the first goal. But what effect are people supposing that the ball had? Made his shot _more_ accurate? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2382 "2010-07-07T01:27:18Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I’m not impressed with this without seeing comparisons with other balls. I won’t be offering mine. Sorry. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2383 "2010-07-07T01:40:40Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I was willing Uruguay to grab a last minute equaliser there - anything for the drama Well, me too - despite watching the match in an Oranje grove, with cries of “get the fuck out” from the owner. It was fun. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2384 "2010-07-07T02:27:47Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I’m not impressed with this without seeing comparisons with other balls. Well, I decided to go to the horse’s mouth and check if they had made a test, it sounded iffy to me that NASA would bother with this, but they did and they did compare it with a ball from the recent past. [http://www.nasa.gov/topics/nasalife/features/soccer\_ball.html](http://www.nasa.gov/topics/nasalife/features/soccer_ball.html) > [@](#): > > To help student soccer players better understand the movement of the ball, NASA scientists at the Fluid Mechanics Laboratory at NASA’s Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif., recently tested the performance of the Jabulani design, and compared it to the 2006 design. For the last World Cup in 2006, the soccer ball’s maker, Adidas, declared it was the most accurate soccer ball ever made. The original design had 32 hexagons of synthetic leather panels; the new ball had 14 thermally-fused panels and no internal stitching. Adidas called this smoother, rounder ball Teamgeist, or “team spirit.” > > But the new design did nothing to lift players’ spirits. Players complained that the new design was wobbly, unpredictable in flight, and made the goalie’s job of blocking the ball even more difficult. This year, Adidas reduced the number of panels to eight and gave the surface aerodynamic ridges. After laboratory testing, NASA scientists are predicting that players will not have much better control of this new ball. > > “It’s quite obvious. You’re seeing a knuckle-ball effect,” said Rabi Mehta, an aerospace engineer at NASA Ames. Mehta explained that when a relatively smooth ball with seams flies through the air without much spin, the air close to the surface is affected by the seams, producing an asymmetric flow. This asymmetry creates side forces that can suddenly push the ball in one direction and cause volatile swerves and swoops. > > From his research on tennis and cricket balls in wind tunnels, Mehta believes that the Jabulani ball will tend to knuckle at 45 to 50 mph, which coincides with the speed of the ball during free-kick around the goal area. Another point made by Mehta, is that a lot of the stadiums for the World Cup are located at high altitude (Johannesburg is at 5,500 feet) and this will affect the ball aerodynamics as well, since the air density is lower. At this high altitude, the ball will tend to fly faster (less drag) and swerve less (less lift). > > To test Mehta’s knuckling theory, Stephen Beitashour, a professional soccer player from the San Jose Earthquakes, was asked to demonstrate kicking the ball for his student audience. “The new ball moves a lot. When I hit it smack straight in the middle with force, it changes direction in the air. It’s harder to track, so players will have to focus more.” > > Afterwards, Mehta and Beitashour fielded students’ questions from schools in the U.S. and Canada. Students from Rainier Middle School, Auburn, Wash., asked, “What impact does speed have on the knuckling effect?” Mehta explained, “The newer balls have a smoother surface. In the past, the soccer ball had a rougher surface, making the knuckling speed about 30 mph. Today, the ball starts to knuckle, or go wobbly, at a speed of 45 – 50 mph.” > > Another Rainier student asked, “What affect does wind resistance have on the ball?” Beitashour said, “Wind has a major effect on the ball. Kicking the ball into the wind makes the ball curve a lot.” > > “It’s relative speed that matters,” added Mehta. “If you have a 20 mph headwind, and you kick the ball at 20 mph, the ball is really going 40 mph. With a strong cross wind, you can make the ball curve without putting much spin on it. Wind is an important factor in all ball sports.” ---
**Author:** ![mittu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2385 "2010-07-07T02:49:03Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > WTF? That was only lucky strike…and a bit shady as well. > > Oh well, Oranje up 2-1 on an own-goal. By what definition was that an own goal? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2386 "2010-07-07T03:39:21Z")
> [@mittu](#): > > By what definition was that an own goal? 😕 A deflection, depending on how it happens. Subjective call most times. ---
**Author:** ![mittu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2387 "2010-07-07T03:49:57Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > A deflection, depending on how it happens. Subjective call most times. A deflection isn’t an own goal, benefit of the doubt is given to the attacker, the defender would need to intentionally re-direct a ball into his own net for it to be an own goal. That’s why it wasn’t recorded as an own goal. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2388 "2010-07-07T03:58:13Z")
Make your own call. Had the defender not stuck his foot in the way of [**Wesley’s**](http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/goals/video/video=1269648/index.html) strike, he wouldn’t have scored. The shady part is the Dutch player, clearly offside, who could be flagged as interrupting the play. Any more questions? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2389 "2010-07-07T03:58:31Z")
Terrific match. Forlan certainly gets my vote for the Golden Ball. Also, best hair. ---
**Author:** ![mittu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2390 "2010-07-07T04:18:35Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Make your own call. Had the defender not stuck his foot in the way of [**Wesley’s**](http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/goals/video/video=1269648/index.html) strike, he wouldn’t have scored. The shady part is the Dutch player, clearly offside, who could be flagged as interrupting the play. > > Any more questions? It isn’t something that is up for debate, the benefit of the doubt is always given to the attacking player, for it to be ruled an own goal the defender needs to intentionally play the ball, which did not happen here. I would be surprised if you could find a single review of the game (from the thousands on the internet) that awards it as an own goal. As for being flagged for offside another look at the laws of the game clears it up nicely: > [@](#): > > “interfering with play” means playing or touching the ball passed or > touched by a team-mate The Dutch player doesn’t touch the ball and is therefore not interfering with play. It wasn’t offside, and it wasn’t an own goal. Not an opinion, just following the laws and guidelines set out by FIFA. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2391 "2010-07-07T04:25:06Z")
[Interfering with an opponent Preventing the opponent from playing the ball by obstructing the player’s sight or intentionally distracting the opponent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offside_(association_football)) I daresay the Dutch player in the offside position obstructed the keeper’s line of sight. “Not an opinion, just following the laws and guidelines set out by FIFA.” And, BTW, I was rooting for the Oranje. Again, any more questions? ---
**Author:** ![mittu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2392 "2010-07-07T04:29:26Z")
Your cite: Wikipedia My cite: FIFA Laws of the Game 2010 (downloaded from [fifa.com](http://fifa.com)) We can discuss which is more reliable if you wish. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2393 "2010-07-07T04:31:43Z")
[**Another Day, Another Dubious Decision: The Dutch Offside Goal.**](http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-cup-2010/another-day-another-dubious-decision-the-dutch-offside-goal.html) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2394 "2010-07-07T04:33:22Z")
> [@mittu](#): > > Your cite: Wikipedia > My cite: FIFA Laws of the Game 2010 (downloaded from [fifa.com](http://fifa.com)) > > We can discuss which is more reliable if you wish. No, I don’t. I’m done with this topic. Readers are left to make up their own minds. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![TheBoltEater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheBoltEater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoltEater)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2395 "2010-07-07T04:42:40Z")
Can I just say, I had no idea how much of an embarrassment Arjen Robben is with his near-complete refusal to use his right foot. How on Earth did he reach this point in his career without some coach somewhere beating that out of him? Ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2396 "2010-07-07T06:08:43Z")
Re: the offsides goal, I don’t think van Persie was offside to begin with. I do think he interfered with the play because the keeper thought he was going to redirect it, but if you check the replay, the ball was already a blur coming off Sneijder’s foot when the defender stepped up. Obviously, it’s debatable, but I think it was a good call. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2397 "2010-07-07T10:14:59Z")
> [@mittu](#): > > A deflection isn’t an own goal, benefit of the doubt is given to the attacker, the defender would need to intentionally re-direct a ball into his own net for it to be an own goal. That’s why it wasn’t recorded as an own goal. The rule as it always seems to be quoted by commentators on the Premier League (and I don’t know how reliable they are!) is that if the \*original shot \*was on target, it goes down as the striker’s goal, but if it was off target then it goes down as an own goal. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2398 "2010-07-07T11:26:30Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > [**Another Day, Another Dubious Decision: The Dutch Offside Goal.**](http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-cup-2010/another-day-another-dubious-decision-the-dutch-offside-goal.html) I fairness that was a very close call and hard to make on the spot. It’s another case for video replay but it’s a perfectly acceptable miss under the current system. It’s not on the level as some other terrible calls. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2399 "2010-07-07T11:40:46Z")
Anyway - ref’s decision is final so moving along … Come on Spain! ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2400 "2010-07-07T13:00:56Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Re: the offsides goal, I don’t think van Persie was offside to begin with. I do think he interfered with the play because the keeper thought he was going to redirect it, but if you check the replay, the ball was already a blur coming off Sneijder’s foot when the defender stepped up. Obviously, it’s debatable, but I think it was a good call. Agreed. Everyone only thinks it was offside because the production crew put “the magic line” where it would look offside, but you can see in the still photo at the link above the ball had already been kicked at that point (Sneijder kicks the ball from the right side of his body, but the still frame has the ball on his left). That fraction of a second makes all the difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=119) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=121)