# 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677 "2010-06-10T17:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 131
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2601 "2010-07-12T04:37:23Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > My money would be on de Jong. He’s a true thug. And I would have won this bet if the Ref had been watching. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2602 "2010-07-12T05:13:04Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > And I would have won this bet if the Ref had been watching. [Indeed.](http://www.totalprosports.com/2010/07/11/nigel-de-jong-vs-xabi-alonso-kung-fu-fighting-gif/) He also missed Van Bommel, already booked, [stamping on Iniesta’s foot.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp24pQ2URJ4) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2603 "2010-07-12T06:22:11Z")
Congrats to Spain. I didn’t really have a dog in this fight, but I was slightly pulling for Holland, as I felt Robben was representing all us bald dudes. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2604 "2010-07-12T06:22:44Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Taking off the second place medal immediately is a long tradition. I can’t remember ever NOT seeing a losing player take it off with self-disgust. Anyway, I think it was the Dutch coach who they showed taking it off. Must be a soccer thing. I don’t see any Olympic silver medalists doing it. To me it looks like a sore loser. If it’s tradition, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2605 "2010-07-12T06:37:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Must be a soccer thing. I don’t see any Olympic silver medalists doing it. To me it looks like a sore loser. If it’s tradition, so be it. Yes, I don’t think it’s viewed as bad sportsmanship in the soccer world. Taking it off is more like saying “I refuse to celebrate my mediocrity/I am not satisfied with being second best.” Personally, I think giving out a loser medal in the first place is a stupid tradition, as is making the losing team hang out on the field until the ceremony. They just lost the biggest game of their lives. Let them go cry in their locker room for God’s sake! Anyway, your post reminded me of the Simpsons: “People, people, please! You’re forgetting what the Olympics are all about: giving out medals of beautiful gold, so-so silver and shameful bronze.” ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2606 "2010-07-12T06:40:21Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Your mistake is to extend how people act in American sports to the rest of the world. It doesn’t work that way. To “take one for the team” like this is not seen as in any way honourable. Tom Boyd did the same thing for Celtic in a UEFA Cup game many years ago. As I recall, the reaction at the time was very much along the lines of “he did what he had to do”. (The opposing team, FC Zurich, coincidentally also missed the resulting penalty.) ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2607 "2010-07-12T08:16:21Z")
Congratulations to Espana. I predicted this result before the World Cup started, but didn’t bet any money on it. Maybe if I fall screaming to the ground in front of the betting window and grab my shin, they will pay me anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2608 "2010-07-12T09:09:35Z")
Man, what a heart attack that match was to watch. And in the end, the side that played marginally better won the game. No ifs and buts about it - Spain won fair and square. Also, thanks whomever it was explaining what was on Iniesta’s undershirt. A lovely tribute, indeed. But. 🙂 I have to take issue with the slagging off the Dutch team have gotten, here and in the (Anglo) press. The game we all saw last night, is the logical result of the playing styles of both teams. It was always going to be physical. A hard playing Dutch side versus an excellently passing Spanish side, you’re gonna get a few fouls. This in itself is not bad - a game can be hard and fair. Problem was, referee Webb was not in control of the match. During the first half, he was handing out yellow cards way too easily, in a vain attempt to get a hold of the player’s respect. Guess what - didn’t work, on either side. The result is a lot of fouls on either side, because the players know that this guy is afraid to send someone off for real. Especially after Nigel de Jong’s ridiculous charge, which was a fucking PURPLE, not a red. So, you’ve got one player getting away with practically murder, at the expense of a yellow, combined with a shitload of players (Dutch and Spanish alike) receiving very questionable yellows. Frustration is now going to play a major part in the second half, and beyond. Right before Iniesta’s goal (he’s initially offside on the first pass, but not on the eventual one that he’s able to put in the net - fair cop), a Dutch kick was clearly deflected into a corner, but Webb somehow missed it. A goal kick was called, and Iniesta scored out of the ensuing attack. Sour grapes for the Dutch, and I understand the frustration of players like Mathijsen (from my home town, he is - and a great tournament he played) receiving a yellow in their protests following that. But by then it was just over - 2 minutes to go and a Spanish side that was never going to let any Dutchman near the goal again. Players like Van Bommel are being slagged off left and right. Yeah, he’s one dirty motherfucker. And he gets away with a LOT of shit. That also makes him a very valuable midfielder. Ask yourself this: would you be so critical of Van Bommel if he played for your team or country? Nah. 🙂 So, all in all, I do believe the ref slightly ruined the game. Had he had a bigger pair of balls, he would have not pussied around with gratuitous yellows that only seemed to serve as his pathetic attempts ar grip (fucking Colina would have just TALKED a player into respecting him), and on top of that, he completely lost the plot when he failed to show Nigel de Jong the red he deserved. When he finally did sent someone off (Heitinga), it was for a compounded two yellows, of which at the least the second one was highly questionable. Too little, too late. A poor performance by the ref, who in addition seemed to favour the Spanish more than the Dutch when it came to calling the fouls. Not that Holland didn’t have themselves to blame for any such bias, based on their hard game in the first half. Imagine De Jong sent off late in the first half. It would have been a completely different match, wouldn’t it? I’m damn sure it would have sobered up the Dutch game foulwise, and it would also have increased the player’s respect for the ref on the Spanish side. It all matters not - as I said, the Spanish won deservedly. They were the better team on the night. As for the better team throughout the tournament, well. I dunno. We didn’t lose to fucking _Switzerland_. 🙂 Congrats, Espana. Perhaps the men in Orange can follow in your footsteps, 4 years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2609 "2010-07-12T09:21:32Z")
Note to self, don’t watch the world cup in [Uganda](http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=11140555). Psycho fucking bastards. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2610 "2010-07-12T10:06:16Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Pressure perhaps, money, no. Anyway I feel the exact opposite. Club football is full of mercenaries and dominated by a few big clubs, and is boring as a result. In England, any player who has two good seasons ends up at either Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea or Man City. In Spain the same is true of Real and Barcelona. Most top German players end up with Bayern. In the South American leagues, players are only trying to impress so they can get a move to Europe, where the money is. The talent follows the money, and the smaller clubs never get a chance to build up a squad capable of taking on the richest clubs. If they uncover a gem of a player, a) they wont be able to compete with wage offers from bigger clubs, and b) the player’s agent will be doing all he can to convince him that a transfer to a bigger club is exactly what he needs (as the agent takes a cut of the transfer fee). Sooner or later, they have to let him go. “Luckily” I support Coventry City, a club that is just about to “celebrate” ten years since they were relegated from the Premier League. The Championship (the league below the Premier League for those that don’t know) is arguably much closer to football of old. It is a LOT closer and as such a hell of a lot more exciting. I honestly pay little attention to the Premiership. Half the players in the England team I have no idea who they play for. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2611 "2010-07-12T11:53:18Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Tbh though, I think Maicon’s goal get better every time you see it; I definitely think he meant it - he hits the ball with the outside of his right foot, so the ball would curl towards the goal, rather than towards the onrushing strikers. A brilliant finish. > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKcY8OPM6uk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKcY8OPM6uk) He picks up his head, looks back across the goalmouth, open his hips up and mishits that ball. It’s absolutely meant to be a cross. If you’re shooting, there’s zero reason to curve the ball. The keeper leaves the near post open, and if you shoot it there, it’s going in no matter the curve. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2612 "2010-07-12T12:21:49Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > He picks up his head, looks back across the goalmouth, open his hips up and mishits that ball. It’s absolutely meant to be a cross. > > If you’re shooting, there’s zero reason to curve the ball. The keeper leaves the near post open, and if you shoot it there, it’s going in no matter the curve. Actually, you have a bigger target to aim at if the ball curls. (Think about it for a moment) He hits across the ball with his right foot. This is not what you do when trying to pull a ball back, in fact, it’s the complete opposite to what you do when you pull the ball back. As far as looking across goes, he looked across, saw there was nothing on, and made a split-second decision to smash it. Or, he looked across to fool the keeper. Either way, the way he hit it was _not_ how you hit a cross.He didn’t even try to wrap his foot around it. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2613 "2010-07-12T12:24:02Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > “Luckily” I support Coventry City, a club that is just about to “celebrate” ten years since they were relegated from the Premier League. The Championship (the league below the Premier League for those that don’t know) is arguably much closer to football of old. It is a LOT closer and as such a hell of a lot more exciting. > > I honestly pay little attention to the Premiership. Half the players in the England team I have no idea who they play for. Ha, I’m Newcastle myself, and I certainly enjoyed our year in the Championship more than any other recently! Now we’re back up to be the whipping boys once again. . ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2614 "2010-07-12T13:09:43Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Some other good goals were Suarez vs S Korea, Podolski vs England (nice team move), Endo’s free kick for Japan vs (??) and Rommedahl vs Cameroon. . . Endo’s free kick came against Denmark, although for my money Suzuki’s bullet free kick earlier in that same match was even better. I’m voting for Diego Forlan’s volley against Germany in the third place playoff. It wasn’t _that_ pretty, but he was practically playing on one leg and it so nearly earned Uruguay the third place medal. If we’re just voting on the goals, and not on the ramifications, then Van Bronckhorst by a nose over Tevez. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > He picks up his head, looks back across the goalmouth, open his hips up and mishits that ball. It’s absolutely meant to be a cross. > > If you’re shooting, there’s zero reason to curve the ball. The keeper leaves the near post open, and if you shoot it there, it’s going in no matter the curve. What on earth are you talking about? He was practically shooting from the byline; he _had_ to curve the ball to have a chance of putting it in. As you say, he looks up and opens his hips, meaning he has plenty of time to see that there’s not going to be anyone on the end of the cross if he does that. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2615 "2010-07-12T13:59:42Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > So now that the tournament is over, which was the best goal? The finish wasn’t spectacular, but I loved Schweinsteiger’s assist for Freidrich’s goal against Argentina [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjVZM7iPseg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjVZM7iPseg) (around 1:15) ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2616 "2010-07-12T14:20:26Z")
I was just reading some of the Dutch press reaction, and it does smack of sour grapes. Most of the yellow cards looked entirely justifiable to me. What was the ref supposed to do? Not his fault that it was a physical game. It was largely Holland’s fault. As for trying to blame the ref for the goal because he miscalled a corner kick, that is just desperate. Referees make minor errors like that all the time. The suggestion that the mistake was somehow responsible for the goal is risible. Just because one event precedes another, it doesn’t mean that it caused it. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2617 "2010-07-12T14:44:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Endo’s free kick came against Denmark, although for my money Suzuki’s bullet free kick earlier in that same match was even better. It was a great hit alright, I just thought the keeper should have got it - long way out, and not _that_ powerful. > [@](#): > > I’m voting for Diego Forlan’s volley against Germany in the third place playoff. It wasn’t _that_ pretty, but he was practically playing on one leg and it so nearly earned Uruguay the third place medal. I felt so sorry for him when he hit the bar with that free kick! He really was fantastic all tournament though, deserves his Golden Ball. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2618 "2010-07-12T14:54:38Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > As for trying to blame the ref for the goal because he miscalled a corner kick, that is just desperate. Referees make minor errors like that all the time. The suggestion that the mistake was somehow responsible for the goal is risible. Just because one event precedes another, it doesn’t mean that it caused it. It wasn’t a minor mistake. That ball got deflected at least 3, 4 meters to the left. It was shot on goal, and went way wide. If both the ref and a linesman fail to spot that, I’d say that’s a major mistake. Failing to recognise a corner does indeed happen all the time, but it’s usually the “goalie got his fingertips on it and ball just cleared crossbar”-variety. Not “defender gets mowed down by cannonball shot, pushing the ball way off its original trajectory”. 😃 Mind you, I’m not blaming the ref for the goal. But it’s understandable the Dutch players were pissed off about it. As for the yellow card overkill in the first half: ref could have done better with a few stern Pierluigi Collina-style intimidating talkings-to, rather than the easy reach for the card pocket. At the beginning of any match of importance, you’ll always see players testing the ref, pushing the boundaries. A good ref will let the offenders know he’s not to be messed with, and will advise the players to knock it the fuck off. A bad ref starts fanning yellows like it’s going out of style. And when he REALLY had to be decisive, he failed. De Jong deserved a red, and certainly Puyol was close to one when he tried to pull Robben down late in the game. Just because for once Robben didn’t take a dive, doesn’t make it any less of a foul. Trying to illegally take down a player with a clear trajectory towards the goal = red. So, if you’re asking me what Webb was supposed to do - well, not what he DID do. No grip on the match at all. Again, it doesn’t change the fact that Spain won deservedly. And if commenting on the ref’s influence on the game puts me in that sour grapes category, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2619 "2010-07-12T15:25:39Z")
I disagree. If a team’s gameplan consists of kicking the other team off the park, no amount of talking from the ref is going to change that. Holland knew they were up against a far better team, and deliberately went out to foul and intimidate Spain as much as possible (exactly the same strategy as they used against Brazil). The referee was lenient initially (Van Persie had a late tackle in the very first minute that would have warranted a yellow had it occured later on), but he _had_ to take action after that. De Jong and Van Bommel had gotten away with murder in previous rounds, both deserved to be sent off yesterday, neither was. I’m not saying the ref was good. I think he was pretty poor overall, but not because he was too strict, because he was too lenient. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/2620 "2010-07-12T15:37:35Z")
> [@carm](#): > > I disagree. If a team’s gameplan consists of kicking the other team off the park, no amount of talking from the ref is going to change that. Holland knew they were up against a far better team, and deliberately went out to foul and intimidate Spain as much as possible (exactly the same strategy as they used against Brazil). The referee was lenient initially (Van Persie had a late tackle in the very first minute that would have warranted a yellow had it occured later on), but he _had_ to take action after that. De Jong and Van Bommel had gotten away with murder in previous rounds, both deserved to be sent off yesterday, neither was. > > I’m not saying the ref was good. I think he was pretty poor overall, but not because he was too strict, because he was too lenient. I think he was spot on with the bookings. I couldn’t argue with any of them. However, the phantom corner before the goal was a terrible decision. Just the latest in a long line of terrible decisions in this World Cup. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=130) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=132)