# 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677 "2010-06-10T17:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/341 "2010-06-13T21:04:14Z")
Well, that was close. Thanks Og for the German keeper! 😉 About time one of the favorites got to strut their stuff – great play from the Germans, even going into a mini-version of our patented [**tiki-taka**](http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/blog?entryID=5267550&name=worldcup2010blog&cc=3888&ver=global). Then again, hard to judge their real level of play considering what they were up against… They’ll be tough though – no doubt about that. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/342 "2010-06-13T21:06:57Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > While it’s nice to have more American voices in a World Cup thread, I have to say that I’m really struggling with the singular vs. plural thing. Such as “Australia is bad”. That just sounds horribly ungrammatical to me. “Australia ARE bad”. ARE. > > Although, I’m quite enjoying saying that, so maybe this singular thing will grow on me. Australia IS bad. IT stinks. Australia IS hopeless at football. Australia couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a banjo (OK, that one works both ways, but I just like saying it). Hee. And we find your use of the plural in such circumstances awkward. We see nouns such as “team” (or Australia, meaning the Australian soccer team) to be singular, so the verb must be singular. You all see “team” as plural (because it describes a group) so the verb must be plural. It’s one of the difference of our common language. Think about it–Australia is a singular proper noun. Logically the verb should be singular… But English is NOT logical. Neither is American. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/343 "2010-06-13T21:07:53Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The World Cup REALLY starts tomorrow when Italy plays for the first time! If you mean “how catenaccio makes a mockery of the beautiful game,” then yes, we’re agreed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/344 "2010-06-13T21:08:55Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > While it’s nice to have more American voices in a World Cup thread, I have to say that I’m really struggling with the singular vs. plural thing. Such as “Australia is bad”. That just sounds horribly ungrammatical to me. “Australia ARE bad”. ARE. 😕 It’s ONE team. Singular. IS ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/345 "2010-06-13T21:18:21Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > 😕 > It’s ONE team. Singular. IS It’s a collection of individuals. ARE. Tbh, this is the one thing that actually jars when reading US posts. Not fatally so, obviously, but it just seems odd. There’s arguments on both sides, but the half-arsed gibberish that the Yanks use is wrong! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/346 "2010-06-13T21:19:41Z")
Hello? What am I, chopped liver? Hmmph. :dubious: See post #342. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/347 "2010-06-13T21:24:37Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > I hope you didn’t miss my multi-layered deconstruction of UK media tropes? > > _kills self_ Sorry. I do have a bit of a hair trigger on what I see as the stereotype of “ruthless, efficient” Germans, and kind of ignored the irony in your post. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/348 "2010-06-13T21:32:19Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > It’s a collection of individuals. ARE. Out of curiosity, would you say “His coin collection are valuable.” ? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/349 "2010-06-13T21:33:02Z")
Watching the BBC repeat of the Ger-Aus match now. BBC(or the originator of the feed) have definitly lowered the horns in the mix, you can barely hear them. Good. ---
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/350 "2010-06-13T21:34:27Z")
Wooh. Germany looked sharp. Looking at the bracket I’m seeing a big possibility that the U.S. will face them in the knockout round. That’s a scary thought. Maybe England will continue its collapse and we’ll face Ghana. There is always hope. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/351 "2010-06-13T21:35:03Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Out of curiosity, would you say “His coin collection are valuable.” ? No. Why do you think that this is even remotely possible? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/352 "2010-06-13T21:35:09Z")
That’s a horrible red card. No way should he have been sent off. ---
**Author:** ![\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/eada6e/32.png) [@\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Undecided_Adrian)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/353 "2010-06-13T21:35:40Z")
Sorry Australia 🙂 As usual, there was a bit of angst in Germany in recent weeks, and as usual we’re off to a great start! The cards sat a bit loose, as we say, and the red against Cahill wasn’t really needed. Nice confidence boost for our strikers, though, especially Klose. The vuvuzelas weren’t too bad this time, but here in Stuttgart the car horns are still working overtime… ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/354 "2010-06-13T21:48:52Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Hee. And we find your use of the plural in such circumstances awkward. We see nouns such as “team” (or Australia, meaning the Australian soccer team) to be singular, so the verb must be singular. You all see “team” as plural (because it describes a group) so the verb must be plural. It’s one of the difference of our common language. Think about it–Australia is a singular proper noun. Logically the verb should be singular… But English is NOT logical. Neither is American. 🙂 That’s iron logic, to be sure. However, our crazy system is useful in that it allows us to distinguish between, for example, Liverpool the city (singular), and Liverpool the bunch of worthless scumb… I mean, Liverpool the football team (plural). So if you say to a British person “Liverpool is awful”, they will take it to mean that the town itself is awful, unlikely as that may be. “Liverpool are awful” would mean that the football team is rubbish, if you can imagine such a thing. Kind of like “in the hospital” vs. “in hospital”. How you Yanks get by without that useful distinction, I don’t know. More seriously, as you suggest these things are a bit arbitrary and there is really no compelling logic to it either way. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/355 "2010-06-13T21:53:57Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > About time one of the favorites got to strut their stuff – great play from the Germans, even going into a mini-version of our patented [**tiki-taka**](http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/blog?entryID=5267550&name=worldcup2010blog&cc=3888&ver=global). Then again, hard to judge their real level of play considering what they were up against… That’s the advantage of two passing central but in depth alternating midfielders (Khedira/Schweinsteiger) and one slightly to one side placed very offensive creative midfielder (Özil) with two explosive players left (Podolski) and right (Müller). The crossing game on his side with Lahm looked decent too – though it wasn’t as fluent as the tested Bavarian-Dutch Lahm/Robben tandem (though it’s hard to top them). Badstuber was ordered to play more defensive on his side – which was a good idea. He is talented but he has just played his first year(!) in the Bundesliga and lacks experience (which showed against Manchester United and Mailand). The same is true for Müller, of course, a couple of months ago he played in Bayern’s “village team”, but it’s easier for an offensive player, especially with a Lahm on your side to help you out. What I liked was a) our side’s change in speed: a deviously slow play up to the halfway line with a sudden explosion of speed beyond it and b) the diagonal passes into the free spaces between the Australian back four. The Australian 4-4-2 shape was simply not adequate to deal with the German 4-2-3-1 that switched almost flawlessly to an 4-5-1 when the ball was lost. Of course, the 4-2-3-1 is known to be the bane of the 4-4-2 – but you need technically strong players to pass the ball along nicely to find the open spaces between the two lines. Spain has them – and no one plays that shape better – but the German players showed its and their potential quite well. And though the incredibly young team showed some stage fright, it was at least entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/356 "2010-06-13T22:00:55Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Sorry. I do have a bit of a hair trigger on what I see as the stereotype of “ruthless, efficient” Germans, and kind of ignored the irony in your post. Not to worry. Hey, all African teams have naive defending, and they are all athletic exuberants. (for non-UK people, our commentators know the game, but there are few cliches that they will not brandish like flaming swords). The German stereotype is the one that most mystifies me. I first visited the Hun when I was 17, my only exposure being _Commando_ comics, _The Great Escape_, _Dambusters_ and _633 Squadron_. I have never had a better holiday, fucking wonderful people who like a drink and a joke, warm and friendly. Wolfsburg is by some measure the strangest place I’ve been though, didn’t really know what to make of that. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/357 "2010-06-13T22:04:24Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Out of curiosity, would you say “His coin collection are valuable.” ? “The flock are flying overhead”? ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/358 "2010-06-13T22:08:28Z")
> [@Enfant Terrible](#): > > Gotta tip your cap to the German side anyway. That was exactly what you should do when you are facing a lesser opponent. They imposed their will and did not take their foot off the gas pedal. Actually, in contrast to their usual style they slowed down considerably during the last third of the second half because, well, no need to exhaust yourself and definitely no reason to kick a man who is already on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/359 "2010-06-13T22:43:34Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Not to worry. Hey, all African teams have naive defending, and they are all athletic exuberants. (for non-UK people, our commentators know the game, but there are few cliches that they will not brandish like flaming swords). There’s also the one about Brazil being everyone’s second favourite team. They don’t exactly say that “they’ve got rhythm”, but they come awfully close. Personally I have found Brazil to be rather cynical and defensive since about 1990, and I don’t really enjoy watching them any more. A far cry from their really great teams of 1982 and 1970 and earlier. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/360 "2010-06-13T22:46:31Z")
Here in New Zealand I think we get the BBC feed so the vuvuezala noise isn’t too bad (as **yojimbo** pointed out). My random thoughts… Germany looked very, very good today in my opinion. Whoever is runner-up in Group C is going to have a hell of a time getting past them in the round of 16. I thought Argentina looked pretty sharp, and the Nigerian Goal-keeper had a blinder to keep it down to 1-0. Nice to see South Korea start with a win against Greece. I’m sticking to my one prediction - On 20 June New Zealand will hold Italy to a 0-0 draw allowing Paraguay and Slovakia through in Group F. Oh and what are the odds on Robert Green growing a beard and buying a caravan? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=19)