# 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677 "2010-06-10T17:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/41 "2010-06-11T17:20:41Z")
So…there’s a tie now. Nobody won and nobody lost? Why didn’t they have one of those penalty kickoff things or sudden death? And what happens to the schedule? Isn’t there an “extra” team out there now? Or, looking at the BBC pages, this is not the “knock out” stage, so why does it matter if you win or lose in the 32-team round? OTOH, the paintings up at the Time-Warner building, the originals of [these guys](http://www.urbanartcore.eu/world-cup-paintings-south-africa/), are very inspiring. I’m amazed how many teams are called after the color blue. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/42 "2010-06-11T17:24:49Z")
Go us! A draw’s not bad, although I thought we looked like winning, most of the second half. Still, we are ranked 80-something, and Mexico’s in the teens, so well done! Also, great opening show. Not too flashy, but lots of heart. Even R. Kelly was cool. Black Power salute - nice touch. And I _so_ want a giant rubber dung beetle now. Oh, and go the vuvuzelas. I’m already tuning out the drone, it’s been pretty constant for the last 3 days, 24/7. There’s a[GIANT vuvuzela](http://www.chrisrawlinson.com/2010/06/hyundai-cape-town-giant-vuvuzela/) in Cape Town that’ll get blown @ the start of every match and every time Bafana score a goal - that thing was LOUD, tonight. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/43 "2010-06-11T17:25:16Z")
In the pool matches, points are awarded (3 for a win, 1 each for a tie), and the two teams with the most points after the pool games are finished go through to the knockout stages. Then, if there is a tie, they play extra time, and if they are still tied, go to a penalty shoot out… Speaking as a South African, if you’d offered me a 1-1 draw before the match, I would have taken it; if you’d offered it to me at half time, I’d have taken it and been extreeeeeemly grateful, but now, at the end, it feels like a loss… funny old game 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/44 "2010-06-11T17:27:02Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > So…there’s a tie now. Nobody won and nobody lost? Yes. > [@](#): > > Why didn’t they have one of those penalty kickoff things or sudden death? Only for finals. This is still group matches - each team will get 1 point for the draw (as opposed to 3 points for a win.) > [@](#): > > And what happens to the schedule? Isn’t there an “extra” team out there now? Or, looking at the BBC pages, this is not the “knock out” stage, so why does it matter if you win or lose in the 32-team round? Points. Only 2 teams from each group go on to the next stage. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/45 "2010-06-11T17:27:17Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I didn’t spot any incorrect offside decisions, so I’m not sure what people are referring to there. > > The vuvuzelas (droning horns) don’t bother me, as long as they don’t catch on elsewhere. I imagine they won’t be as pervasive at games not involving SA, but anyway, it’s only a month. For now, they’re a novelty to me. World Cups tend to have these quirky things you remember them for. Again, I don’t believe the call was offside but rather a questionable charge on the Mexican player that headed the ball to the one that scored. Have a very deficient broadcast team so they never made clear was the actual call was. If it was indeed, offside, Mexico got jobbed as the replay clearly shows a defender and the goalie making the scorer legal. So, what _was_ the call? ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/46 "2010-06-11T17:42:42Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Again, I don’t believe the call was offside but rather a questionable charge on the Mexican player that headed the ball to the one that scored. Have a very deficient broadcast team so they never made clear was the actual call was. If it was indeed, offside, Mexico got jobbed as the replay clearly shows a defender and the goalie making the scorer legal. > > So, what _was_ the call? I’m now not sure that we are talking about the same incident. I’m talking about the one where there was a corner to Mexico on the far side, one of their players headed it on to another Mexican player, and that player headed or chested it in. That second player was offside at the moment the ball was headed towards him. There was only one South African player ahead of him, the keeper having come out to challenge for the ball. The replays we saw here at the time made that clear. I didn’t notice any foul by the first Mexican player. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/47 "2010-06-11T17:52:13Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > So…there’s a tie now. Nobody won and nobody lost? > > Why didn’t they have one of those penalty kickoff things or sudden death? > > And what happens to the schedule? Isn’t there an “extra” team out there now? Or, looking at the BBC pages, this is not the “knock out” stage, so why does it matter if you win or lose in the 32-team round? To be a bit more clear than the other responders, the teams are currently in 8 4-team groups. Each team will play each other team in the group, no matter what. Than the two teams from each group with the best record will advance to the knockout stages, at which point it’s just a single-elimination tournament. In the group stages, games can end in a tie after regulation. In the knockout rounds, if there’s a tie after regulation, there’s extra time, then if it’s still tied, the dreaded penalty kicks. A record of 2-1-0 in the group stages ALMOST guarantees going through, 1-1-1 is often good enough. If the USA lose to England tomorrow, we’re still very likely to make it through, because the other two teams in our group (Algeria and Slovenia) are teams we’re expected to beat. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/48 "2010-06-11T17:59:21Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I’m now not sure that we are talking about the same incident. I’m talking about the one where there was a corner to Mexico on the far side, one of their players headed it on to another Mexican player, and that player headed or chested it in. That second player was offside at the moment the ball was headed towards him. There was only one South African player ahead of him, the keeper having come out to challenge for the ball. The replays we saw here at the time made that clear. I didn’t notice any foul by the first Mexican player. Yes, it was definitely an offside decision, and definitely correct. A few people that don’t know the offside rule have questioned it, as there was a SA defender on the goal line, but when the ball was played through, the “scorer” was goalside of the keeper, so the defender on the line was the only man goalside of him. You need two players goalside of you when the ball is played forward in order to be onside. Usually the goalkeeper is goalside of the striker, so people tend to assume the rule is “one outfield player” and ignore the keeper. It isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/49 "2010-06-11T17:59:40Z")
Thanks so much! But how would you get 2 points if it’s 1 for tying and 3 for winning? ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/50 "2010-06-11T18:04:22Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > To be a bit more clear than the other > If the USA lose to England tomorrow, we’re still very likely to make it through, because the other two teams in our group (Algeria and Slovenia) are teams we’re expected to beat. I don’t agree with this. Any team that starts with a loss shouldn’t be “very likely” to make it through, since failure to win both remaining games would put that team in peril. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/51 "2010-06-11T18:06:06Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Thanks so much! But how would you get 2 points if it’s 1 for tying and 3 for winning? You don’t 🙂 It’s just 3 points for a win, 1 point each for a draw (not “tie”). I seem to remember at a previous World Cup or Euro championships, one of the groups finished with everyone on 3 points, as all the games ended in draws. In that case, it goes down to goal difference, then number of goals scored, and if you still can’t split them, they draw lots! ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/52 "2010-06-11T18:07:29Z")
You can’t get two points in a game in the group stages. They changed the point system a few Cups ago to encourage teams to not play for the tie. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/53 "2010-06-11T18:08:42Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Thanks so much! But how would you get 2 points if it’s 1 for tying and 3 for winning? You cant. It used to be 1 point for a tie, 2 for a win, but it was changed to 3 for a win to encourage offensive playing. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/54 "2010-06-11T18:15:15Z")
Uruguay have 4.5 million extra supporters tonight. The Irish want France out of this tournament ASAP :mad: ---
**Author:** ![vdgg81](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@vdgg81](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vdgg81)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/55 "2010-06-11T19:30:42Z")
So, is anybody watching the match? To me France seems superior and their football is clearly prettier to watch than Uruguay’s, but at this point I’d say it could go to anybody. On SA x Mexico I’ll pipe in to agree that the Mexican striker was clearly offside. I still don’t understand why nobody is remarking on the penalty that should have been called in SA’s favor at around the 26th minute of the second half. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/56 "2010-06-11T19:33:22Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I’m now not sure that we are talking about the same incident. I’m talking about the one where there was a corner to Mexico on the far side, one of their players headed it on to another Mexican player, and that player headed or chested it in. That second player was offside at the moment the ball was headed towards him. There was only one South African player ahead of him, the keeper having come out to challenge for the ball. The replays we saw here at the time made that clear. I didn’t notice any foul by the first Mexican player. Yes, that was the play. The only (very brief) replay we got to watch was from the point of the header on, and in that quick glimpse it looked as if _both_ the goalie and the defender were behind the scorer thus making his position legal. However, I’ll take your word (and others) that the keeper was in front as, again, I only caught a quick glimpse. * * * **Mehitabel** , it’s already been explained to you how the elimination process works. To make it easier, just think that once the group stage is over you’re down to 16 teams. In each one of those matches there has to be a winner. Thus if at the end of regulation and extra time there’s still a draw, the PK lottery comes into play. Works the same all the way to The Final. * * * Fairly boring first half between the French and Uruguayans. Solid defending by the latter, but not much happening. Here’s hoping for a better second half – and yes, I’d like the French to sink as well for the same reasons as everyone else. Shouldn’t be there. Period. ---
**Author:** ![TheBoltEater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheBoltEater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoltEater)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/57 "2010-06-11T19:36:46Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > So, regarding this offside thing, I hear that ESPN have brought in Martin Tyler (well-known and very experienced British commentator) for their US coverage, and he and his equally British co-commentator Efan Ekoku were going on about the “incorrect” offside call against Mexico for a good ten minutes afterwards? Jesus wept. I agree with you wholeheartedly here. I thought Tyler was quite good and Ekoku was just OK, but they completely butchered that call. The TV replay kept showing them that the keeper had gone out for the ball, thereby making the Mexican player offside, and they kept saying it was a blown call because there was a defender on the goal line. _Two_ players. You need TWO players goalside of you to be onside. Just because the keeper is _usually_ goalside of any attacker doesn’t mean he is _always_ goalside. The play was definitely offsides, and correctly ruled as such. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/58 "2010-06-11T23:21:04Z")
Rather disappointing second match. Expected more from those two what with the added bonus of the morning’s match draw – would have given the potential winner some welcomed breathing room. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/59 "2010-06-11T23:30:26Z")
\*\*Arg[color=#C0C0C0]entina[/color] vs Ni[color=#C0C0C0]geria[/color] 10:00 A.M. EST En[color=#C0C0C0]gland[/color] vs USA 2:30 P.M. EST\*\* On paper both should be cracking matches. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/60 "2010-06-11T23:37:54Z")
Ooops! My apologies. Obviously posted to the wrong thread. I I’ll try to get a friendly mod to move them…to late for me to delete. Sorry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=4)