# 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677 "2010-06-10T17:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/621 "2010-06-17T20:21:56Z")
Game over. Finally, Mexico 2 - France 0. And Mexico is left to play against Uruguay, with the added “thing” that, if they tie their match, both go through to the next phase…! ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/622 "2010-06-17T20:22:00Z")
Yes! A bit closer to France going home. Goooooodbyeeee. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/623 "2010-06-17T20:30:31Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Yes! > > A bit closer to France going home. Goooooodbyeeee. _Schadenfreude_ much, mister? 😉 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/624 "2010-06-17T20:33:35Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Game over. Finally, Mexico 2 - France 0. > > And Mexico is left to play against Uruguay, with the added “thing” that, if they tie their match, both go through to the next phase…! So it’s sure to be an exciting match. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/625 "2010-06-17T20:34:19Z")
I could hear people in neighbouring apartments celebrating and cars on the street beeping their horns when they lost. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/626 "2010-06-17T20:41:25Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I don’t really see it as any different to diving for a penalty, which English players have been known to do (kept us in the 1990 World Cup, for one thing, when Cameroon had us on the ropes). True, I can remember Gerrard diving to win a penalty in one game (a Euro 2008 qualifier? Can’t remember now.). Never a nice way to get eliminated from a competition though, when somthing like that happens. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/627 "2010-06-17T20:41:52Z")
¡Viva México! The only thing that might make Uruguay or Mexico not want a tie is that #2 would have to play Argentina. Uruguay is one point ahead on goal differential. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/628 "2010-06-17T20:42:43Z")
This was the first match in the cup that had a genuine football atmosphere with a great Mexican crowd. That’s how it’s supposed to sound! ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/629 "2010-06-17T20:50:23Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > ¡Viva México! > > The only thing that might make Uruguay or Mexico not want a tie is that #2 would have to play Argentina. Uruguay is one point ahead on goal differential. On the other hand, if Uruguay or Mexico lose their match, and the South Africa vs. France match does NOT end in a tie, the loser of the match does NOT go through. Whereas, in the case of a tie, they are guaranteed to go through… But, of course, there you end up with calculations as to whether you would want to meet Argentina in the next match. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/630 "2010-06-17T20:59:30Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > On the other hand, if Uruguay or Mexico lose their match, and the South Africa vs. France match does NOT end in a tie, the loser of the match does NOT go through. > > Whereas, in the case of a tie, they are guaranteed to go through… But, of course, there you end up with calculations as to whether you would want to meet Argentina in the next match. To be more exact, you mean, if the above happens, it all depends on the goal difference. Mexico and Uruguay both already have four points. Either France or South Africa can get to 4 points. Uruguay are +3, Mexico are +2, France are -2 and South Africa are -3. So Uruguay or Mexico can conceivably lose a close game and still advance. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/631 "2010-06-17T21:02:19Z")
> [@MD12](#): > > Edit: I’m an idiot. > … > Argentina is moving on regardless, so Nigeria needs ARG to beat Greece and for their own goal differential to be better than South Korea’s OR Greece’s. For all intents and purposes, yes, they are eliminated. Sorry to put the boot in, but while we’re talking slim probabilities there is a _theoretical_ possibility of argentina going out. Greece would have to thrash argentina, and south korea would have to thrash nigeria. (you think you’d get really good odds for that, but I’m only seeing 25/1, William Hill). ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/632 "2010-06-17T21:04:44Z")
Before it comes down to goal differential it should go down to head-to-head. If France ties Mexico in points, Mexico should advance no matter what the goals differential looks like. But I can’t find the tiebreaking formula on FIFA’s website, and I’ve long ago learned not to trust that people running tournaments do things in the sane way. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/633 "2010-06-17T21:08:25Z")
Oh boy, ce résultat n’est pas le fruit du hasard. The up and down continues: Cup Winners in 1998, winless and goalless in 2002, runner-up in 2006, .. to be continued. :smack: > [@](#): > > But, of course, there you end up with calculations as to whether you would want to meet Argentina in the next match. Querer es poder. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/634 "2010-06-17T21:22:38Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Before it comes down to goal differential it should go down to head-to-head. If France ties Mexico in points, Mexico should advance no matter what the goals differential looks like. > > But I can’t find the tiebreaking formula on FIFA’s website, and I’ve long ago learned not to trust that people running tournaments do things in the sane way. It is annoyingly difficult to find definitive FIFA rules. However, Wikipedia to the rescue – it cites FIFA article 39, which says that absolute performance against all teams in the group takes precedence over relative performance against teams that are otherwise equal: _The ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows: a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches; b) goal difference in all group matches; c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches. If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings will be determined as follows: d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned; e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned; f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned; g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee._ ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/635 "2010-06-17T21:30:07Z")
That’s ridiculous. Head-to-head should always take precedence over goal differential. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/636 "2010-06-17T21:50:10Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > That’s ridiculous. Head-to-head should always take precedence over goal differential. I don’t know if that’s a good idea competition-wise. More teams would be hopelessly behind on the last group game and have nothing to play for, skewing the results. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/637 "2010-06-17T21:58:05Z")
As a child of two maths teachers I love playing the permutations game at this stage. A draw between Mexico and Uruguay puts both through on 5 points, with Uruguay qualifying first on goal difference. As others have pointed out though we’re unlikely to see a [Shame of Rustenburg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germany_v_Austria_(1982)) as neither team would want to face Argentina. So (hopefully) we should see a competitive (but cautious) match. As **Shibboleth** points out the goal differentials are such that France and South Africa have to play for a huge win to have any chance, and hope that either Uruguay or Mexico trounce the other to overcome the goal differential. My guess is we see a tight but competitive game between the two leaders and a frantic all-out attack from the hosts and France. Either that, or France rolls over to give South Africa a chance to advance. In Group B **Mijin’s** right, if Argentina lose by more than 4 or 5 against Greece **and** South Korea demolish Nigeria by 5 or more the Argentines will be in trouble. Returning to reality though a South Korean win or draw over Nigeria should be enough for them to advance in second behind Argentina. If both Group B matches are drawn then it will come down to most goals scored between Greece and South Korea. South Korea have an edge as they have scored one more goal than Greece. So Greece must win or have a high-scoring draw to have any chance. Setting us up for another two good games to finish the group. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/638 "2010-06-17T22:01:33Z")
\*\*Germany vs Serbia 7:30 A.M. EST [size=6]Slovenia vs USA 10:00 A.M. EST England vs Algeria 2:30 P.M. EST[/size]\*\* ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/639 "2010-06-17T22:07:13Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I don’t really see it as any different to diving for a penalty, which English players have been known to do (kept us in the 1990 World Cup, for one thing, when Cameroon had us on the ropes). What made Maradonna different was the years of refusing to admit to handling the ball even in the face of clear photographic evidence. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/640 "2010-06-17T22:59:14Z")
Looks like another good set of games to me. I didn’t see Serbia’s loss to Ghana, but Germany looked very good against Australia so I’d expect the Germans to win and pretty much guarantee their advancement. The two Group C matches also look worth a watch. Personally I expect Algeria to give England a fright but for England to prevail with a scratchy win that leads to another round of angsty headlines from the English media. I’ve got no idea about Slovenia - USA. Slovenia qualified behind Slovakia and have lower FIFA and ELO ratings than the USA (for what they’re worth). So that might suggest USA as the favourites perhaps? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=33)