# 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677 "2010-06-10T17:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/921 "2010-06-19T15:56:39Z")
Well I personally, hope that Baldassi doesnt get to ref too many matches… if you get my drift ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/922 "2010-06-19T16:39:00Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Maybe so, but you don’t know that, and neither does the ref, which is why the ref is not asked to judge a players intention but their behavior, which in this case was deserving of a red card as per the rule book. I don’t know if you are referring specifically to the elbowing, but referees often have to judge whether an act is intentional - handball, for example. Plus intent can mean the difference between a clumsy foul and a professional foul that merits a yellow card. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/923 "2010-06-19T16:45:36Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > I have to disagree on that, sorry. > > The finest player who never made the World Cup was [George Best](http://www.ifhof.com/hof/best.asp). That was my first reaction too, in that Best at his peak was a better player than Giggs at his. But I think it is an interesting question as to who a manager would pick if they were offered the choice of having a 16-year old Best or Giggs to play for them for the rest of their careers, knowing what each achieved over their careers. Best’s flame shone brighter but shorter. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/924 "2010-06-19T16:47:06Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > No goals, no score, cries of frustration instead of triumph. Allright, but I still have no idea why any of this is a reason to make fun of “soccer” per se? Sometimes the ball just won’t go in, regardless of your efforts. I’ve seen high-class matches full of exciting attacks and counter-attacks with almost no pause at all because neither the players nor the ref had any intention to distrupt the flow of the game. The one side fires a shot against the bar, a defensive player catches the ball, playing it directly into the free lane for an attacker who manages to shake off his pursuer only to see his effort being thwarted by an astonishing save. Matches like that can end in an 0:0 draw and are yet anything but frustrating or boring. Goals are nice but not a sine qua non for an incredible match and excited fans. Of course, they will usually opt for a goal instead of an incredible game if this means that their team advances – but this is true for every sport, I guess. The cries you heard had more likely to do with the way the teams played – and this is not a a kind of frustration that is only familiar to the football fans either, don’t you agree? > [@](#): > > Why do you say Holland got a lucky break? The goal was at least in part the keeper’s error, and the game was hardly a display of football passion, but the Netherlands were dominant throughout the large majority of it and certainly deserved to win. – **Švejk** Not just in part – it was a blunder. But to clear up a misunderstanding: yes, you deserved to win. It’s just that I expect more from a team overflowing with top-notch players – and don’t tell me you wouldn’t prefer a better gameflow with a wider positional play and more quick attacks into the depth of the opponents half after a perfectly timed vertical pass? Like it or not, your team has to bear the expectation of excellence. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Well I personally, hope that Baldassi doesnt get to ref too many matches… if you get my drift I’d like to see him in the final. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/925 "2010-06-19T16:49:21Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Why do you say Holland got a lucky break? The goal was at least in part the keeper’s error, and the game was hardly a display of football passion, but the Netherlands were dominant throughout the large majority of it and certainly deserved to win. Not to speak for **wintertime** but Holland did get a break today since Van Persie handled the ball in the build-up to the goal. However, they were by far the dominant side, and I’d have to say they deserved a win, even if it wasn’t with the flair that I’ve come to expect from the Dutch (their play in the match against Denmark was similarly prosaic, albeit effective). ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/926 "2010-06-19T16:57:47Z")
> [@Gotterfunken](#): > > Not to speak for **wintertime** but Holland did get a break today since Van Persie handled the ball in the build-up to the goal. He did? I thought so at first when I watched the slowmo of the goal but wasn’t sure. ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/927 "2010-06-19T17:18:46Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > I don’t know if you are referring specifically to the elbowing, but referees often have to judge whether an act is intentional - handball, for example. Plus intent can mean the difference between a clumsy foul and a professional foul that merits a yellow card. Dempsey has gained a fairly well-deserved reputation for violent conduct like this–with his elbows, he’s succeeded in breaking the jawbone of not one, but TWO opposing players in recent years (Jimmy Conrad and John Terry). Knowing Dempsey’s history, the elbow-smash in the Slovenian player’s face looked intentional to me, and had this been an English Premier League match, the referee (presumably more familiar with Dempsey’s style of play than the ref in yesterday’s match) might have thought so, too. But you’re right that intent is not always that easy to read, and in any case the officials’ decisions hinge a lot on how clearly they can see the incident. Honestly, I think Dempsey figured it was so early in the match, he could get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/928 "2010-06-19T17:23:41Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > He did? I thought so at first when I watched the slowmo of the goal but wasn’t sure. It looked that way to me. The only replay I saw of it didn’t clear things up, since the camera angle didn’t get a good view of Van Persie. It wasn’t as blatant as, say, Thierry Henry’s handball against Ireland, but my immediate impression was that it was handball. Maybe I need to see another replay of it, from a better angle. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/929 "2010-06-19T17:48:00Z")
I see. Well, doesn’t matter anyway, it’s handball when the referee says so. 🙂 Btw, I hope our Spanish representative will get over the nasty shock soon and reenter the discussion - after all, the European big shots all don’t look too great in this stage of the Cup: the English don’t seem to be able to handle the expectations, the Netherlands win but don’t play well, my Germans are volatile, the Italians seem senile, the French … mon Dieu … We have all been upset by an underdog … or two. So far, Argentina and Brazil show not just the most potential but also the most professional attitude. So far. Damn. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/930 "2010-06-19T17:57:37Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > We have all been upset by an underdog .. or two. Except for Holland, of course. Double damn. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/931 "2010-06-19T18:05:05Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > snip … > > We have all been upset by an underdog .. or two. So far, Argentina and Brazil show not just the most potential but also the most professional attitude. So far. > > Damn. This is what’s exciting though, all sorts of upsets. What’s going on? ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/932 "2010-06-19T18:12:49Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > I don’t know if you are referring specifically to the elbowing, but referees often have to judge whether an act is intentional - handball, for example. Plus intent can mean the difference between a clumsy foul and a professional foul that merits a yellow card. In the case of a handball it does not matter whether a player intended to do it or not, but rather if he could reasonably have avoided it. If a hand was in the way and need not have been, even if it is an honest mistake it still is a foul. Obviously intent can make things worse but only if it is very blatant, such as when there is an actual fight. > [@Gotterfunken](#): > > Not to speak for **wintertime** but Holland did get a break today since Van Persie handled the ball in the build-up to the goal. > > However, they were by far the dominant side, and I’d have to say they deserved a win, even if it wasn’t with the flair that I’ve come to expect from the Dutch (their play in the match against Denmark was similarly prosaic, albeit effective). > [@wintertime](#): > > It’s just that I expect more from a team overflowing with top-notch players – and don’t tell me you wouldn’t prefer a better gameflow with a wider positional play and more quick attacks into the depth of the opponents half after a perfectly timed vertical pass? Hell yes. I found it an incredibly frustrating game that annoyed me to no end, especially during the first half. All those balls kicked back to the goalie, the low pace of the game, the lackluster attitude: I hated it. It wasn’t bad, there were no real mistakes and the Japanese did not create any opportunities during the first half, so it was efficient enough, but it was just ugly. Like a German friend posted on my facebook wall, we seem to have exchanged football cultures. In reply, I posted that I hope we also copied the German way of becoming world champions with crap football 😃 The goal was lucky (and I did also think that Van Persie handled it) but in line with the way the game had worked out up until then. After we scored we hung back and on a number of occasions the Japanese came dangerously and needlessly close to tying. The Dutch, on the other hand, did not create enough opportunities and dealt with the opportunities that were created in a very shallow, unfocused way. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/933 "2010-06-19T18:34:02Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > This is what’s exciting though, all sorts of upsets. What’s going on? Well, I have already stated some of the reasons for Germany’s fluctuation(s) in previous posts. France is a simple matter of a quarrelling team and a despised coach: a bunch of first class lone wolves can/will be beaten by any hard working and at least competent team. Spain was a lot of bad luck but also a less than stellar performance and some unusual mistakes by their coach. Lets see how they do in their second match first. Italy is a team that consists of too many players who are past their best, though I would be careful: they still have a couple of great performances in them and might surprise their opponent in crunch time. England is mystifying. Well, **Švejk** , there seems to be little room for dispute then, except .. > [@](#): > > In reply, I posted that I hope we also copied the German way of becoming world champions with crap football What? When we play really crappy we usually end up as runner ups, not world champions. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/934 "2010-06-19T18:38:28Z")
> [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#): > > He jumps, with his elbow high and hits his oponent in the face –\>red card, no ambiguity, red card :rolleyes: ``` * Serious foul play * Violent conduct * Use of abusive language and/or gestures * Spitting at an opponent or any other person * Denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper inside his/her own penalty area) * Denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick (known as a professional foul) * Receiving a second caution (yellow card) in the same match ``` Which one of these says that accidentally hitting somebody in the face is a red? Oh right, none of them. If it’s serious foul play then every match would end 9v9. Should have been a yellow for unsporting behavior as interpreted as a bad challenge. Do you think Heskey should have been sent off for cleating Howard in the chest? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Punkyova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@The\_Punkyova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Punkyova)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/935 "2010-06-19T19:09:33Z")
Beautiful run! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Punkyova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@The\_Punkyova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Punkyova)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/936 "2010-06-19T19:19:10Z")
Balancing misses, what a game! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/937 "2010-06-19T19:31:59Z")
Am watching the Cameroon v Denmark game. Brilliant goal by Den tied the score. Now we’re in the second half. Go Denmark! (don’t really care who wins, but I tend to root for the underdogs and they were down by one most of the first half, so they qualify in my head). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Punkyova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@The\_Punkyova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Punkyova)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/938 "2010-06-19T20:31:44Z")
Oh, that’s hard for Camaroon. But what a fun game to watch! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Punkyova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@The\_Punkyova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Punkyova)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/939 "2010-06-19T20:33:36Z")
\Can someone explain to me why U2 is all over these games? It’s not like South Africa has no fantastic musicians who could be in the commercials.\ ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/940 "2010-06-19T20:45:01Z")
Very entertaining match; both sides made enough mistakes to lose it but it seems to be a good Cup for the smaller European countries. Cameroon is out and it’s a pity, Holland is already qualified for the next stage and Denmark will fight it out with Japan. Things are starting to heat up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=48)