# 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677 "2010-06-10T17:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 64
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1261 "2010-06-23T16:24:47Z")
As for tonight’s permutations, as I understand it… **GERMANY WIN, SERBIA WIN:** These two teams would qualify, with the placings depending on the respective scores. Currently Germany have scored 4, conceded 1, and Serbia scored 1, conceded 1. So Serbia need to beat Australia by 3 more goals than Germany beat Ghana by, which would tie the goal difference/goals scored stats, and Serbia would top the group by virtue of beating Germany in their match. Otherwise, Germany go 1st and Serbia 2nd. **GERMANY WIN, SERBIA DRAW** If Germany win by a single goal, and Serbia draw 0-0, then Germany and Ghana go through as 1st and 2nd. If Germany score more, or Serbia get a score draw, then Germany and Serbia qualify as 1st and 2nd. **GERMANY WIN, SERBIA LOSE** Germany 1st, Ghana 2nd. **GERMANY DRAW, SERBIA WIN** Serbia 1st, Ghana 2nd. **GERMANY DRAW, SERBIA DRAW** Ghana 1st, Germany 2nd. **GERMANY DRAW, SERBIA LOSE** Ghana 1st, Germany 2nd. **GERMANY LOSE, SERBIA WIN** Ghana 1st, Serbia 2nd. **GERMANY LOSE, SERBIA DRAW** Ghana 1st, Serbia 2nd. **GERMANY LOSE, SERBIA LOSE** Ghana 1st, Australia 2nd. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1262 "2010-06-23T16:25:01Z")
Who decides that the winner of Group G plays Runners-up of Group H? Brazil may be playing Spain there. Are these 2nd round games decided at random or is there some reasoning behind it? ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1263 "2010-06-23T16:26:47Z")
[quote=“Colophon, post:1261, topic:542677”] As for tonight’s permutations, as I understand it… **GERMANY WIN, SERBIA LOSE** Germany 1st, Ghana 2nd. Does not that depend on goal difference? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1264 "2010-06-23T16:31:24Z")
> [@blinkingblinking](#): > > Who decides that the winner of Group G plays Runners-up of Group H? Brazil may be playing Spain there. > Are these 2nd round games decided at random or is there some reasoning behind it? A + B are one bracket. C + D are the next bracket, and so on. ETA: If you mean how are the groups assigned, that’s a random draw. The top 8 seeds (the 7 top-ranked teams according to FIFA, plus the host team) are each placed in their own group, and the other three teams in each group are assigned randomly, though arranged by region. See [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_seeding). ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1265 "2010-06-23T16:34:10Z")
If you want to see how the draw pans out, you can use the BBC’s [team tracker](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sol/shared/inc/v4/world_cup_2010/wallchart/main.html#p). Just enter the winners and runners up for each group, and pick a likely winner for each round. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1266 "2010-06-23T16:34:24Z")
> [@blinkingblinking](#): > > Does not that depend on goal difference? No - Ghana have 4 points at the moment, Serbia 3 points. So it would be Germany 6pts, Ghana 4pts, Serbia 3pts, Australia 1pt. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1267 "2010-06-23T16:35:39Z")
> [@blinkingblinking](#): > > Who decides that the winner of Group G plays Runners-up of Group H? Brazil may be playing Spain there. > Are these 2nd round games decided at random or is there some reasoning behind it? It’s all decided by the initial tournament draw. If you look at a fixture wallchart it all makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1268 "2010-06-23T16:36:58Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Wow, what a goal by Donovan, with great help from Dempsey and Altidore. Props to Tim Howard, too, for that quick throw to Dempsey that started the whole thing. > [@blinkingblinking](#): > > Who decides that the winner of Group G plays Runners-up of Group H? Brazil may be playing Spain there. > Are these 2nd round games decided at random or is there some reasoning behind it? I think it’s all scheduled in advance, even before the draw. So we knew it would be the winner of Group G against the runner-up of Group H, even before we knew which teams would be in those groups. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1269 "2010-06-23T16:37:36Z")
Looking back, I’m surprised the ref didn’t call the goal back for offsides. There was a US player in the goal, after all. You know you were thinking it. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1270 "2010-06-23T16:43:35Z")
Kind of interesting looking at the tracker. If the remaining matches go to form (obviously, some won’t), England’s route through the competition is Germany, Argentina, Spain, Brazil, probably the toughest imaginable. If we’d managed to top the group it would have been Serbia, Uruguay, Brazil, Spain, a much easier run to the semis. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1271 "2010-06-23T16:45:40Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > No - Ghana have 4 points at the moment, Serbia 3 points. So it would be Germany 6pts, Ghana 4pts, Serbia 3pts, Australia 1pt. If Australia wins (Serbia loses) then Ghana and Australia have 4 points , no? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1272 "2010-06-23T16:52:40Z")
> [@blinkingblinking](#): > > If Australia wins (Serbia loses) then Ghana and Australia have 4 points , no? Sorry, brain freeze. :smack: You are right. Currently, Ghana’s GD is +1, Australia’s is -4. So Germany would need to thump Ghana and/or Australia put several past Serbia, but yes, Australia could qualify in 2nd in this scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1273 "2010-06-23T17:07:43Z")
Apparently iPlayer was serving 800,000 streams of the England game, on top of its usual load. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1274 "2010-06-23T17:11:19Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Looking back, I’m surprised the ref didn’t call the goal back for offsides. There was a US player in the goal, after all. > > You know you were thinking it. What are you? A communist? 🙂 The goal was struck by Donovan, who wasn’t even close to being offsides. There were players forward, sure, but they never touched it so… no offsides. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1275 "2010-06-23T17:19:11Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > The goal was struck by Donovan, who wasn’t even close to being offsides. There were players forward, sure, but they never touched it so… no offsides. There was no offsides on the early (non) goal, so it wouldn’t have been that much of a stretch to make shit up on that one too. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1276 "2010-06-23T17:23:51Z")
So I have wandered over to some of the English sites to see the comments and whay I find amusing is how they tell us 'Yanks" to stop whinging about disallowed goals etc., you know because we don’t really understand the game. Because of course other countries (especially England) never ever complain about a percieved injustice. Comical. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1277 "2010-06-23T17:41:27Z")
They’re telling you to stop whinging because borderline cases like that go against you all the time. That was a really close call, and I think the US player was actually fractionally offside, but I accept that it was close enough that the linesman should have given the benefit of the doubt to the attacking side. But the point that I hope my compatriots were making is that razor-thin offside calls are no basis for cries of “injustice!” They happen all the time. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1278 "2010-06-23T17:45:57Z")
I thought the reaction to the disallowed goal in the Slovenia game was totally overblown; calls like that happen all the time. It’s unfortunate, but there’s no replay, so just move on. To have it happen a second time, when either time a goal would have allowed the US though, was pretty hard to stomach. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1279 "2010-06-23T17:51:08Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > They’re telling you to stop whinging because borderline cases like that go against you all the time. That was a really close call, and I think the US player was actually fractionally offside, but I accept that it was close enough that the linesman should have given the benefit of the doubt to the attacking side. But the point that I hope my compatriots were making is that razor-thin offside calls are no basis for cries of “injustice!” They happen all the time. Deal with it. It sounds very patronizing. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1280 "2010-06-23T17:51:24Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Looking back, I’m surprised the ref didn’t call the goal back for offsides. There was a US player in the goal, after all. > > You know you were thinking it. You really need to stop whining now, because you’re sounding like a petulant kid. Although i guess you _are_ a Steelers fan, so it shouldn’t be too surprising. Yes, the offside call shouldn’t have been, but that’s just how it is sometimes. The United States deservedly made it through, and are at the top of the group. Not only that, but plenty of people from all over the world, me included, were happy to see them make it out of the first round. But every American who keeps bleating like a sheep and implying that the bad decisions constituted some sort of conspiracy to keep the US out of the next round is going to dry up the foreign support pretty damn quickly. Just put it behind you and move on, ferchissakes. I’ll bet that’s what the players themselves are doing, much to their credit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=63) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=65)