# 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677 "2010-06-10T17:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1601 "2010-06-26T12:39:33Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > You have no basis to claim that it has nothing to do with “manliness.” Neither have you to claim the opposite; it’s easy to say “you” - it’s a general you, mind you 😉 - wouldn’t do something because it’s not manly if it’s not to your advantage anyway. > [@EllisDee](#): > > Unless you’re arguing that diving is a **good** aspect of soccer, what do we have to agree to disagree about? I’m in full agreement with much of the rest of your post. The one point where I disagree is the idea that diving is only bad if it directly affects the outcome of the game. IMO, diving is bad in its own right. Fake=bad. Oh no, it’s unfair every time. But usually it’s nothing that changes the game, unlike a foul that injures a player, for example. It’s a question of proportionality. > [@EllisDee](#): > > On an unrelated note, I am beyond psyched for today’s USA-Ghana match. The USA are the favourites in this game but they need to improve their scoring percentage or they might get into trouble against a team that can soak up tons of pressure in the middle. Ghana has even more problems to score than your team, so their quick attackers, who can outrun your centre-backs, might miss repeatedly a fourth time. Heart attack situations are likely. And you might end up with an 0-0 and a penalty shootout. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1602 "2010-06-26T12:58:32Z")
My prediction is for the USA to go behind early on but come back and win at the last gasp (maybe even in extra time or on penalties). After all, why change the habit of the tournament? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1603 "2010-06-26T14:31:04Z")
Gooal!, Uruguay 1 Corea 0. Vamo Arriba La Celeste! ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1604 "2010-06-26T14:48:26Z")
And Uruguay should have had a penalty. Whether the SK player should have been booked is debateable, but that it should have been a penalty is not. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1605 "2010-06-26T15:02:58Z")
On the NFL, and manliness: I’ve seen players with separated shoulders get them popped back in on the sideline and return to the game, and I’ve seen linemen with broken fingers get them shot with cortisone, wrapped up with another finger, and also sent back into the game. But NFL players are crazy. On the other hand, I saw Kenny Lofton (MLB player) separate his shoulder on a rare slide-into-first play, and he cried like a big baby. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1606 "2010-06-26T15:18:58Z")
Well, I’ve seen similar things in soccer. Beckenbauer played on with a disclocated arm once, I remember. This macho/manliness thing is barking up the wrong tree. Diving/simulation is annoying because it’s cheating, not because they’re “pussies”. They’re only pretending to be soft. They’re hard as nails, a lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1607 "2010-06-26T15:41:09Z")
A lovely goal there by Uruguay. I like the South Koreans, but it doesn’t look like they’ll get back into this. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1608 "2010-06-26T15:49:49Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > Neither have you to claim the opposite; it’s easy to say “you” - it’s a general you, mind you 😉 - wouldn’t do something because it’s not manly if it’s not to your advantage anyway. The culture of the NFL dictates that you play when you’re hurt, otherwise you’re letting your teammates down. To “sit out” for a part of a play because you’re faking being hurt would be an unforgivable sin, and part of the shame would be that it’s unmanly to fake injury in the attempt to draw a penalty. > [@Ximenean](#): > > Well, I’ve seen similar things in soccer. Beckenbauer played on with a disclocated arm once, I remember. > This macho/manliness thing is barking up the wrong tree. Diving/simulation is annoying because it’s cheating, not because they’re “pussies”. They’re only pretending to be soft. They’re hard as nails, a lot of them. Whatever the motivation, they come off as pussies. (Including Altidore.) > [@](#): > > The USA are the favourites in this game but they need to improve their scoring percentage or they might get into trouble against a team that can soak up tons of pressure in the middle. Ghana has even more problems to score than your team, so their quick attackers, who can outrun your centre-backs, might miss repeatedly a fourth time. Heart attack situations are likely. And you might end up with an 0-0 and a penalty shootout. Yeah, USA was favored against Slovenia too. I expect to lose this game, but will be watching with bated breath all the same. Who will the winner face? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1609 "2010-06-26T15:51:47Z")
Nothing to be ashamed of in that loss for South Korea. They acquitted themselves well against top opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1610 "2010-06-26T15:53:40Z")
I was really rooting for Korea. ☹ Oh, well. Go USA! ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1611 "2010-06-26T16:06:22Z")
No one answered my rugby question, btw. Is there diving in rugby, and if not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1612 "2010-06-26T16:12:12Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > .. and part of the shame would be that it’s unmanly to fake injury in the attempt to draw a penalty. Except for punters of course, but everybody knows they are pussies who arn’t really athletes anyway. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1613 "2010-06-26T16:19:45Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Haha no. Altidore. No sorry, you lot are\* brave soldiers\*. Sorry, I wasn’t trying to say that the US team is blameless, just that some teams are far and away worse than others. Knorf was saying that there isn’t that much diving and that a lot of the falls are something that really hurts but then goes away. I think if that were true you’d see about the same amount of falling and writhing from all the teams, but clearly there are teams that get ‘hurt’ far more often than others and it’s really a bit ridiculous at times. > [@Ximenean](#): > > Well, I’ve seen similar things in soccer. Beckenbauer played on with a disclocated arm once, I remember. > This macho/manliness thing is barking up the wrong tree. Diving/simulation is annoying because it’s cheating, not because they’re “pussies”. They’re only pretending to be soft. They’re hard as nails, a lot of them. I think most people get that. For all his whining and carrying on I know Christiano Ronaldo could kick my ass up and down the street all day. It’s still pathetic though, it’s like a little kid whining to mama to get their way and it’s frustrating to see it work. On the plus side, the schadenfreude I get from seeing a diving diva receive a card for his theatrics sometimes makes it almost worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Ian\_D.Bergkamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Ian\_D.Bergkamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ian_D.Bergkamp)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1614 "2010-06-26T16:54:11Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Well, I’ve seen similar things in soccer. Beckenbauer played on with a disclocated arm once, I remember. > This macho/manliness thing is barking up the wrong tree. Diving/simulation is annoying because it’s cheating, not because they’re “pussies”. They’re only pretending to be soft. They’re hard as nails, a lot of them. A dislocated arm is nothing. Man City keeper Bert Trautmann once continued playing after [breaking his neck](http://tdifh.blogspot.com/2010/05/5-may-1956-trautmann-puts-his-neck-on.html). ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1615 "2010-06-26T17:01:08Z")
> [@Terraplane](#): > > Knorf was saying that there isn’t that much diving and that a lot of the falls are something that really hurts but then goes away. This is incorrect. I said that there’s less than people often say there is. To hear some people talk, almost every time a player is on the ground it’s a dive. That’s ignoring reality. I’m not saying there’s little to none, I’m saying it’s exaggerated by soccer naysayers. Contact in professional soccer is _very_ hard, way harder than it looks, and I’m quite certain that a lot of people in this thread would go down and stay down with an average tackle from a pro footballer. And anyone who has played soccer knows that a lot of the injuries often are in fact the kind that hurt for a moment but dissipate. Actually, the same is true of American “football.” I’ve seen countless plays in football in which some player is left lying on the field but is playing again in a few moments. Watch some college games this fall. It happens a lot. People don’t remark on it because huge gaps of play stoppage are normal and there are lots of reasons for someone to end up on the ground that have nothing to do with a penalty. > [@Terraplane](#): > > I think if that were true you’d see about the same amount of falling and writhing from all the teams, but clearly there are teams that get ‘hurt’ far more often than others and it’s really a bit ridiculous at times. You’re not accounting for the fact the some teams play with a lot more rough contact than others. I doubt you’ve seen most of these teams play once or twice; that’s hardly enough for a generalization. ---
**Author:** ![UncleNito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/7cd45c/32.png) [@UncleNito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleNito)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1616 "2010-06-26T17:03:15Z")
I agree that American football requires more physical toughness than soccer, but I think some of my countrymen underestimate the significance of free substitution. It’s utterly routine, in the NFL, for a player to miss a play or two when he gets his bell rung or the wind knocked out of him. It’s also common for hurt players to head for the sideline (or locker room) for painkiller injections, taping, and other treatment. You can’t really do that in soccer. Also, for more minor, walk-it-off stuff, you have thirty seconds or so between plays. You don’t have to bounce up and run full speed right away. Don’t get me wrong, in a fight between Altidore and Clay Matthews Jr., I know who I’m betting on. But it’s not a complete apples-to-apples comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1617 "2010-06-26T17:32:00Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > This is incorrect. I said that there’s less than people often say there is. To hear some people talk, almost every time a player is on the ground it’s a dive. That’s ignoring reality. I’m not saying there’s little to none, I’m saying it’s exaggerated by soccer naysayers. Ok, I see what you’re saying. I agree with you, most of the time when they fall it’s because they’re really honestly hurt. If I were running at a full sprint and took a kick to the ankle I’d be rolling on the ground too. But the game does have a reputation for people faking injury and I think it’s earned it. Most of the falls aren’t dives but there are still too many that are. It’s irritating when it happens and I wish there were some real penalties for faking it, even if they have to be issued after the game. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1618 "2010-06-26T17:40:13Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > You’re not accounting for the fact the some teams play with a lot more rough contact than others. I doubt you’ve seen most of these teams play once or twice; that’s hardly enough for a generalization. Can you say “Italy fakes injury with the same frequency as the US?” ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1619 "2010-06-26T18:02:29Z")
Usa! Usa! Usa! ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677/1620 "2010-06-26T18:04:38Z")
Ghana, Ghana, Ghana. Oi, oi, oi! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=80) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-fifa-world-cup-south-africa/542677.md?page=82)