# 2010: How Democrats lost the Battle, but won the War **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085 "2010-11-09T20:19:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/1 "2010-11-09T20:19:27Z")
A lot of people are blaming the health care law for playing a role in the Democrat’s defeat at the polls. I don’t think that it cost them the election (the public seems to be evenly divided on this issue). But even if that were true, and the Democrats lost specifically because they rammed the health care law through, I’d still say it was worth it. This author from Slate [agrees](http://www.slate.com/id/2273708/) with me: > [@William Saletan](#): > > I realize that sounds crazy. We’ve become so obsessed with who wins or loses in politics that we’ve forgotten what the winning and losing are about. Partisans fixate on punishing their enemies in the next campaign. Reporters, in the name of objectivity, refuse to judge anything but the Election Day score card. Politicians rationalize their self-preservation by imagining themselves as dynasty builders. They think this is the big picture. > > They’re wrong. The big picture isn’t about winning or keeping power. **It’s about using it.** [emphasis mine] > > Most bills aren’t more important than elections. This one was… **It’s a huge structural change in the relationship between the public, the economy, and the government.** > > Politicians have tried and failed for decades to enact universal health care. This time, they succeeded. In 2008, Democrats won the presidency and both houses of Congress, and by the thinnest of margins, they rammed a bill through. They weren’t going to get another opportunity for a very long time. It cost them their majority, and it was worth it. The chances of this law being repealed are very very slim. A [cogent analysis](http://www.newsweek.com/2010/11/05/why-healthcare-reform-will-survive.html) from Wendell Potter, a former insurance executive who helped defeat the Clinton plan in 1993 but converted to the side of health reform, on why health reform will survive: > [@Wendell Potter](#): > > Once those newly elected members of Congress have a little talk with the insurance industry’s lobbyists and executives, they will back off from that pledge. They will go through the motions, of course. They’ll hold hearings and take to the floor of both Houses to rail against the new law, and they’ll probably even introduce a bill to repeal it with much fanfare—but it will all be for show. **That’s because health insurers, one of Republican candidates’ biggest and most reliable benefactors—the industry contributed three times as much money to Republicans as to Democrats since January—can’t survive without it.** [emphasis mine]… > > I know what the insurers are thinking because, not long ago, I was on their side. I am sorry to admit it, but over nearly two decades I had a hand in planning the industry’s PR and public-policy strategies to either kill or shape any health-care reform proposal that might hinder profits. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/2 "2010-11-09T20:35:05Z")
The health care law is a weak version of the platform the Democrats were elected on. The “rammed/jammed/slammed” is a marketing phrase taught to you by Fox news and talk radio. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/3 "2010-11-09T21:12:16Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > The health care law is a weak version of the platform the Democrats were elected on. The “rammed/jammed/slammed” is a marketing phrase taught to you by Fox news and talk radio. Weak version? The [HCR that was passed is essentially Romenycare](http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/30/new-health-care-law-a-republican-plan-that-should-make-insurance-companies-proud/) that was pushed by Republicans and the Heritage Foundation in the 90’s. Pretty much the Dems passed the Republican plan. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/4 "2010-11-09T21:14:15Z")
I agree. Bush was elected with control of congress and maintained them for 6 years (minus the few months the Senate flipped) by not really doing anything to advance Conservative domestic legislative goals. Obama blew through his larger majoritiy in two years, but did more to advance his parties legislation agenda in two years then either party has managed to do since LBJ. At the end of the day. I vote Democratic because I want to see Democratic legislation pass through Congress, not because I particularily care if Russ Feingold has a job or not. A Dem majority that didn’t get the Stimulus bill, financial Regulation bill and the Health Care bill through but won the 2010 election would be worthless to me. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/5 "2010-11-09T21:26:44Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > At the end of the day. I vote Democratic because I want to see Democratic legislation pass through Congress, not because I particularily care if Russ Feingold has a job or not. A Dem majority that didn’t get the Stimulus bill, financial Regulation bill and the Health Care bill through but won the 2010 election would be worthless to me. A-fucking-men. Or, let me put this question to our GOP brethren here: Would you have given up the GOP majorities in, say, 2002 (or hell, the presidency in 2004) if it meant passage of privatization of Social Security? What about a flat tax? An abortion ban (if you’re a social-conservative type)? ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/6 "2010-11-11T21:24:40Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > A-fucking-men. > > Or, let me put this question to our GOP brethren here: > > Would you have given up the GOP majorities in, say, 2002 (or hell, the presidency in 2004) if it meant passage of privatization of Social Security? What about a flat tax? An abortion ban (if you’re a social-conservative type)? That’s what convinced me that the GOP was full of it. They had the Presidency, both houses of congress, and a majority on the Supreme Court for 6 years - and they did not pass legislation on their core wedge issues. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/7 "2010-11-11T21:32:21Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > That’s what convinced me that the GOP was full of it. They had the Presidency, both houses of congress, and a majority on the Supreme Court for 6 years - and they did not pass legislation on their core wedge issues. I think deep down inside the GOP headquarters, there are certain issues they don’t want to actually address; they’d rather keep them unaddressed so they can keep railing against those issues and keep voters showing up at the polls. If they actually managed to outlaw abortion, they’d lose much of the evangelical christian right, who might see that the mission is accomplished and begin to start looking at economic justice as a christian concern. I don’t consider myself to be a partisan. Keeping Democratic asses in Congressional seats is not my main concern. I don’t believe in electing Democrats in order to keep electing Democrats. They are simply a **means** to an end, not an end in itself. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/8 "2010-11-11T23:17:30Z")
This isn’t Universal Health Care. It is, as Bill Maher called it, a giant blow job for the insurance industry. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/9 "2010-11-11T23:26:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This isn’t Universal Health Care. It is, as Bill Maher called it, a giant blow job for the insurance industry. I agree with you here, at least partially. What we will have by 2014 is Universal _ **Access** _ to health care, which is a step below true Universal Health Care. Anybody who wants health insurance can get it, though a non trivial number of people will foolishly choose to shrug it off and suffer some negative consequences from that. I sincerely hope that this law will be improved upon, and that it will merely be the foundation for a much more substantial reform in the future. But the thing that I consider most important here is that this law will **save lives**. I’m a heterosexual man, and I think the for-profit health insurance industry shouldn’t even exist. But if sucking an insurance executive’s dick on national television meant that thousands of lives would be saved, it would be worth it for me to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/10 "2010-11-12T00:12:53Z")
A recent Associated Press [poll](http://www.ap-gfkpoll.com/pdf/AP-GfK%20Poll%20November%202010%20Topline.pdf) (Warning: PDF file! It’s on page 45) seems to show that 58% of the public wants to either keep the law is is (20%), or improve it so that it does MORE to change the health care system (38%). A total of 39% want to either repeal it completely (31% favor complete repeal) or change it so that it does LESS to change the health care system (8%). ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/11 "2010-11-12T01:03:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This isn’t Universal Health Care. It is, as Bill Maher called it, a giant blow job for the insurance industry. Its a law that seeks to ensure everyone has Health Insurance, it is a Universal Health Care bill. It uses the same basic system as is used in several other countries such as Switzerland, and no one questions whether or not they have UHC. To paraphrase a commenter whose much funnier then Bill Maher, some liberals seem like they’d much prefer to pass a bill that sent a Secret Service agent to the house of every Health Insurance exec to kick them as hard as possible in the nuts rather then a bill that helped insure Americans that couldn’t afford coverage. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/12 "2010-11-12T01:54:04Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > To paraphrase a commenter whose much funnier then Bill Maher, some liberals seem like they’d much prefer to pass a bill that sent a Secret Service agent to the house of every Health Insurance exec to kick them as hard as possible in the nuts rather then a bill that helped insure Americans that couldn’t afford coverage. Your hackneyed, non-partisan, centrist, “can’t we all just get along, you guys?” sentiment is not only annoying and unconvincing, but completely false. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/13 "2010-11-12T14:47:29Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Your hackneyed, non-partisan, centrist, “can’t we all just get along, you guys?” sentiment is not only annoying and unconvincing, but completely false. Well, yeah, but…it’d be pretty frickin’ _awesome_ if insurance-exec nut-kicking was an option. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/14 "2010-11-12T17:38:33Z")
“Today, President Obama announced his pick for the newly created Cabinet position, Secretary of Nut-kicking.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/15 "2010-11-12T17:42:09Z")
That’s available in my cafeteria plan. $17/mo. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/16 "2010-11-12T18:11:45Z")
I agree that it doesn’t have a good chance of being repealed. However, I disagree that it was a huge deal. It is only a good piece of legislation in that it is a baby step on the way to socialized medicine. Standing by itself, it is neutral. It has some good parts and some bad parts. oh, and… > [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > The “rammed/jammed/slammed” Ohhhh. Black Betty… ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/17 "2010-11-13T07:35:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Weak version? > > The [HCR that was passed is essentially Romenycare](http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/30/new-health-care-law-a-republican-plan-that-should-make-insurance-companies-proud/) that was pushed by Republicans and the Heritage Foundation in the 90’s. > > Pretty much the Dems passed the Republican plan. You question the phrase “Weak version”. Would you have preferred the phrase I’d use: “_Wrong_ version” ? The 111th Congress was the first time in 30 years that Demos approached non-filibusterable control. That they have so little to show for it (Republican-style, insurance-company-friendly healthcare reform is their “great achievement” :smack:) is a tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/18 "2010-11-13T08:00:45Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > …To paraphrase a commenter whose much funnier then Bill Maher, some liberals seem like they’d much prefer to pass a bill that sent a Secret Service agent to the house of every Health Insurance exec to kick them as hard as possible in the nuts rather then a bill that helped insure Americans that couldn’t afford coverage. Can we do both? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/19 "2010-11-13T15:14:10Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Its a law that seeks to ensure everyone has Health Insurance, it is a Universal Health Care bill. It uses the same basic system as is used in several other countries such as Switzerland, and no one questions whether or not they have UHC. > > To paraphrase a commenter whose much funnier then Bill Maher, some liberals seem like they’d much prefer to pass a bill that sent a Secret Service agent to the house of every Health Insurance exec to kick them as hard as possible in the nuts rather then a bill that helped insure Americans that couldn’t afford coverage. I think different subsets of liberals have different priorities. Some have cheaper health care costs as their main priority, with universal coverage being a secondary and incidental benefit of that. I can see why those liberals so pissed off about this, and are looking at this achievement in a “glass is half empty” kind of way. My main priority is extending coverage to everyone. Lowering costs is secondary. So I say the glass is half full. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085/20 "2010-11-13T18:46:15Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I think different subsets of liberals have different priorities. Some have cheaper health care costs as their main priority, with universal coverage being a secondary and incidental benefit of that. I can see why those liberals so pissed off about this, and are looking at this achievement in a “glass is half empty” kind of way. > > My main priority is extending coverage to everyone. Lowering costs is secondary. So I say the glass is half full. Lowering costs for individual consumers, or for the country as a whole? I’d argue the new legislation will do both in a substantial way, so I’m not sure why you’d think the glass is half empty even if that was your primary concern. It provides multiple mechanism to lower the total cost of health care in the country ([here’s a partial list](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/the_five_most_promising_cost_c.html)) and massively subsidizes health care plans for the lower income uninsured, making those plans far more affordable then they would be otherwise (and of course, lowering the total cost of healthcare also lowers premiums for individual consumers, albeit slowly). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-how-democrats-lost-the-battle-but-won-the-war/560085.md?page=2)