# 2010: Miss. county schools ordered to comply with desegregation order **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 14, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002 "2010-04-14T00:47:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/1 "2010-04-14T00:47:57Z")
Also known as: Jesus Christ what fucking year is this? [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/13/AR2010041302867.html?hpid=topnews](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/13/AR2010041302867.html?hpid=topnews) > [@](#): > > A federal judge Tuesday ordered a rural county in southwestern Mississippi to stop segregating its schools by grouping African American students into all-black classrooms and allowing white students to transfer to the county’s only majority-white school, the U.S. Justice Department announced. Two questions occur to me right away… 1. How did they think they would get away with this in this day and age? 2. How can they think that resegregation is right? Fucking Mississippi. A third world country in the middle of America. I’ve got half my kin in rural Louisiana and they ain’t stupid enough to try this (and some of them can by mighty stupid, trust me.). ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/2 "2010-04-14T01:03:44Z")
Very sadly, this sort of thing is actually not that uncommon, even in the modern South. (Excuse me: “Sunbelt”.) I grew up in rural east Tennessee, and the neighboring county where I went to school was all-white. Literally. No black families at all, even in the early 90’s. They had been run out decades before. My high-school was all-white. I remember hearing racist jokes (including the N word) told by my principal, and students would bring KKK literature and pass it out at school. The people were horribly, disfiguredly, rabidly racist. Fucking disgusting. The irony–lost on the mouth-breathing, cousin-fucking populace of that county–was that pretty much all of eastern TN, being poorly suited for plantation agriculture, had always been pretty much slave-free and strongly pro-Union, during the Civil War. It wasn’t 'til the Reconstruction era that the racist/Confederate stuff crept into the region. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/3 "2010-04-14T01:46:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Also known as: Jesus Christ what fucking year is this? Don’t you mean Jesus Fucking Christ? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/4 "2010-04-14T01:59:39Z")
Desegregation has been a very tough row to hoe in a lot of places, not just the historical laughingstocks. Some places refuse to desegregate until ordered to do so (and given orders how to do so), and most places, once the federal orders are lifted, allow or encourage (depending on your point of view) the de facto state of segregation to return almost immediately anyway. If there isn’t a federal court breathing down the school districts’ necks, the shit doesn’t happen, has been the trend in many places. And then [some places](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Involved_in_Community_Schools_v._Seattle_School_District_No._1) try to do more to integrate and get smacked down by the Supreme Court for being too race-conscious in the other direction. It seems to be the case that we’ve reached the point where we are fully pretending that racism is no longer an issue in this country – and that’s part of the answer to questions 1 and 2, in my opinion. If we allow that we turned some corner in the distant past – if systemic racism is a thing that _used_ to be a problem – then suddenly why shouldn’t we allow students to transfer wherever they want? In this day and age, why shouldn’t we get past looking at race? Shouldn’t we be color-blind? Wasn’t that the whole point? Etc. They thought they could get away it because, well, they have been getting away with it. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/5 "2010-04-14T02:45:55Z")
Can I get a _witness_? Nothing makes us feel better than a little recreational outrage, huh? ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/6 "2010-04-14T06:38:28Z")
Gee, you were surprised that an egalitarian state such as Mississippi would maintain such an anachronistic mentality? Why just last month, a school district got bent out of shape because their prom would be attended by lesbians!! Darn, I forget … in what state was that school district located? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/7 "2010-04-14T11:45:19Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > Gee, you were surprised that an egalitarian state such as Mississippi would maintain such an anachronistic mentality? > Why just last month, a school district got bent out of shape because their prom would be attended by lesbians!! > Darn, I forget … in what state was that school district located? 😕 But, see, that was on the far Northeast end of the state. This current pit thread is about a county in the Southwest end of the state. It’s not like this encompasses the entire state! Besides, this is just more evidence of the FEDS interfering with the STATES! To the barricades! -Joe, waiting to hear about the other 2 corners ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/8 "2010-04-14T20:19:43Z")
Merijeek > [@](#): > > But, see, that was on the far Northeast end of the state. This current pit thread is about a county in the Southwest end of the state. Well thank you for clearing that up and my sincerest apologies for thinking that all citizens of Mississippi possessed an antiquated mentality. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/9 "2010-04-15T00:04:51Z")
I’m not going to defend the state. A whole lot of the people here really do suck THAT bad. But if you “[think] that all citizens of Mississippi possessed an antiquated mentality,” You are wrong. I am a citizen of this less-than-great state, and I am progressive and forward thinking. Constance McMillen and her supportive family are citizens of Mississippi. At least some of the people who are fighting against the injustice in this case are citizens of Mississippi. Racism and bigotry are wrong, no matter where you live. They are everywhere, and while I will never say the South isn’t a more racist part of the country, we do not have the sole claim on racism. Much of the North doesn’t have anyone to be racist against; they ran the minorities out decades ago, and have maintained all white enclaves ever since. Or are you going to tell me there aren’t all white school districts, in, say, Iowa? Instead of bashing every citizen of the state, let me say that I think this is fucked up, and I’m glad it is beginning to be mended. I hope the newly integrated minorities don’t come to any harm, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they did, I’m afraid. Good for them, though, for trying to stand up to injustice. Only by staying here and fighting can anything ever change. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/10 "2010-04-15T01:51:18Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I’m not going to defend the state. A whole lot of the people here really do suck THAT bad. But if you “[think] that all citizens of Mississippi possessed an antiquated mentality,” You are wrong. I am a citizen of this less-than-great state, and I am progressive and forward thinking. Constance McMillen and her supportive family are citizens of Mississippi. At least some of the people who are fighting against the injustice in this case are citizens of Mississippi. Racism and bigotry are wrong, no matter where you live. They are everywhere, and while I will never say the South isn’t a more racist part of the country, we do not have the sole claim on racism. Much of the North doesn’t have anyone to be racist against; they ran the minorities out decades ago, and have maintained all white enclaves ever since. Or are you going to tell me there aren’t all white school districts, in, say, Iowa? > > Instead of bashing every citizen of the state, let me say that I think this is fucked up, and I’m glad it is beginning to be mended. I hope the newly integrated minorities don’t come to any harm, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they did, I’m afraid. Good for them, though, for trying to stand up to injustice. Only by staying here and fighting can anything ever change. I believe Iowa is something like 98% white. Can you please cite the migration of African Americans that suggests they were “run out”? ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/11 "2010-04-15T03:13:32Z")
**miss elizabeth** Yes, that reply I made was somewhat strongly worded and it certainly did seem I was condemning the entire state of Mississippi. Sorry. See? Despite its name, _The Pit_ can still be a place for polite discussion of today’s topics. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/12 "2010-04-15T03:17:51Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I believe Iowa is something like 98% white. Can you please cite the migration of African Americans that suggests they were “run out”? This. Great Northern Migration, folks. Blacks from the South, along with whites from Appalachia, generally migrated to industrial cities, not agricultural states or farm-market centers. Blacks weren’t looking for 40 acres and a mule in Nebraska or North Dakota, but rather 40 hours a week in the factories of Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/13 "2010-04-15T03:28:10Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I believe Iowa is something like 98% white. Can you please cite the migration of African Americans that suggests they were “run out”? I don’t think **miss elizabeth** was claiming that minorities were “run out” of the North **as a whole** , but rather that they were run out or kept out of **parts** of the various states and cities in the North by segregation laws specifically to preserve “white enclaves”. Once you don’t have any minorities in your school district, then voila! Nobody to discriminate against, nothing to feel guilty about! I assume you don’t need a cite for the historical existence of [segregation laws in Iowa](http://www.eric.ed.gov:80/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED145058&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED145058). ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/14 "2010-04-15T05:51:26Z")
Mississippi is an easy target for RO of the racial type. Not that there isn’t room for improvement, but remember that other school districts all over the country have been involved in federal court cases involving desegregation. Boston and Chicago are two that come to mind first. Mississippi (and the south in general) sometimes gets a worse rap than other areas because their segregation laws (pre Civil Rights Act) were much less subtle. I grew up in the midwest. MLK spoke in 1964 at the college that two of my sisters graduated from. He had to be lodged in the next town over because of a sundown ordinance. [Sundown town - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town) Those weren’t uncommon in northern towns and cities. Even after the Civil Rights Act, much of the time, there was a tacit agreement among realtors that blacks were not shown property in certain areas of town. That had the effect of making defacto segregation by geography. It’s hard to enforce school integration when there are less than .5% minorities in your whole county. Yes, it’s really sad that desegregation cases are still going on in this century, but let’s not kid ourselves, it happens outside of the south too. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/15 "2010-04-15T11:46:05Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > This. Great Northern Migration, folks. Blacks from the South, along with whites from Appalachia, generally migrated to industrial cities, not agricultural states or farm-market centers. Blacks weren’t looking for 40 acres and a mule in Nebraska or North Dakota, but rather 40 hours a week in the factories of Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland. No, not this. _That suggests that they were never there in Iowa, not that they were “run out!”_ ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/16 "2010-04-15T11:49:45Z")
I think it all makes us feel good to decry segregation and, without thinking, assume that desegregation was a universal good, and all those parents who desired their kids be in the best possible school and get the best possible education are/were all virulent racists. Neither is true. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/17 "2010-04-15T11:56:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I don’t think **miss elizabeth** was claiming that minorities were “run out” of the North **as a whole** , but rather that they were run out or kept out of **parts** of the various states and cities in the North by segregation laws specifically to preserve “white enclaves”. Once you don’t have any minorities in your school district, then voila! Nobody to discriminate against, nothing to feel guilty about! > > I assume you don’t need a cite for the historical existence of [segregation laws in Iowa](http://www.eric.ed.gov:80/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED145058&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED145058). Ok, lets look at that. Is there any compelling evidence that suggests that Iowa made a potential life for AAs so unwelcoming that they weren’t “run out”, but rather, “kept out”? No. In fact, didn’t almost every single locale that AA migrated into have laws that were every bit as pernicious as the one you cited? Whites and blacks alike migrated to industrial states for _jobs._ ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/18 "2010-04-15T13:02:28Z")
> [@Washington Post](#): > > Known as Mississippi’s cream pitcher for its dairy farms and bordering Louisiana 80 miles north of New Orleans, Walthall County… The reporter probably enjoyed writing that line. I guess they don’t want to be known as the cafe-o-lait pitcher. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/19 "2010-04-15T13:11:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Is there any compelling evidence that suggests that Iowa made a potential life for AAs so unwelcoming that they weren’t “run out”, but rather, “kept out”? > > No. One person making precisely that argument is James Loewen, author of **sundown Towns** , who has a webpage on such activities for each state. Here’s his Iowa page: > **[Iowa Archives - History and Social Justice](https://justice.tougaloo.edu/location/iowa/)** > [@](#): > > “The thesis that active white racism drove people > out > you’ll look hard for evidence of that in Iowa. But as > far > as not selling homes to blacks, restrictive > covenants, > railroad unions that didn’t hire blacks that was > real.” > > - Hal Chase, History Professor at Des Moines Area > Community College, quoted in “Racism Lurking at > Sundown”, Des Moines Register, 27 February 2006 > > As of the 2000 census, about one quarter of Iowa’s > 99 > counties had less than 15 black residents. > **[General - History and Social Justice](https://justice.tougaloo.edu/sundowntown/general-ia/)** > [@](#): > > One person has reported that Pleasant Hill, a suburb > of Des Moines, had a sundown sign. > **[Pleasant Hill - History and Social Justice](https://justice.tougaloo.edu/sundowntown/pleasant-hill-ia/)** > [@](#): > > "City clerks in both Lenox and New Market say they, > too, remember the sundown ordinances in their > towns. > "‘Lenox was violently opposed to blacks. It was well > known,’ said Helen Janson, the president of the Taylor > County Historical Society… > "Just 10 years ago, when Stanton met Lenox in a high > school football game, a racial incident erupted. > "Dave Burham, a biracial Stanton player, had recently > moved to Iowa to live with his grandfather, Bobby > Burham. The 15 year old claimed he was beaten > following a game and racial slurs were directed toward > him. > “‘Dave is of mixed race,’ said Bobby Burham of his > white daughter’s son. ‘As he was leaving the field, fans > had gathered at the exit. He had a Mohawk and > someone yelled, “Nice hair, n-----.” Dave had a sense > of humor. He told them it was Velcro that kept his > helmet on.’” > "Then, his grandfather reports, he was pushed in the > back; students and adults piled on top of him, kicking > and swinging until the Stanton football coach noticed > the mayhem and rescued him. > “A year later, a Taylor County grand jury decided no > charges would be filed. Athletic events were canceled > between the two schools.” > -“Racism Lurking at Sundown”, Des Moines Register, > 27 February 2006 > **[Lenox - History and Social Justice](https://justice.tougaloo.edu/sundowntown/lenox-ia/)** ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002/20 "2010-04-15T14:07:56Z")
Thank you to everyone who replied about Sundown Towns. I thought that was a well known phenomenon; I guess not. There is plenty of evidence that blacks were deliberately kept out of white enclaves in the north. There is, and always has been, plenty of racism to go around in this country, unfortunately. Like I said, I am not defending Mississippi. I think it is fair to say that most of the people here have some pretty disgusting views. But, again, it isn’t everyone. And only by strong people staying here, and working to change attitudes, will things ever change. I do not blame anyone who decided that enough was enough, and left the state, of course. But its hard for the people who live here, and try to be a face for a different kind of South, to hear that everyone from Mississippi (or Alabama, or Arkansas, or Tennessee…) is a stupid racist redneck. Again, though, this action is fucked up. I am not totally surprised to see it, but even still, its shocking. I sincerely hope things are improved, and without violence. I hope these kids learn to befriend one another, and bring new racial reconciliation to their area. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2010-miss-county-schools-ordered-to-comply-with-desegregation-order/536002.md?page=2)