2010 NFL Hall of Fame Finalists Announced

The Game Room
21

Sammy Baugh is probably who you’re thinking of.

Regarding Ray Guy: when I was growing up, Guy was a perennial Pro Bowler. In recent years, I recall Paul Zimmerman, one of the football writers from SI, and a HoF voter*, opining that Guy was very overrated, and that he got too much fame for being able to hit the scoreboard gondola hanging from the roof of the Superdome. I generally trust Dr. Z’s opinion, and I admit I was probably too young and un-knowledgeable to assess Guy’s ability.

That said, the current Raiders punter, Shane Lechler, has really dominated the punting category for most of this decade, and is having his best year ever – his gross average is nearly 52 yards, and his net is nearly 45. He might be the first pure punter to get in.

  • Zimmerman had a series of strokes last year, and has yet to recover enough to resume writing. I don’t know if he’s still a HoF voter, though I’d suspect he’d be so once again if he’s able to recover.
22

Dr. Z is still a voter. Peter King said his wife will fill in his card for him.

23

Excellent to hear.

24

Cliff Branch, WR – 1972-1985 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders No
Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers No
** Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins Yes
Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers Yes**
Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings No
Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos No
** Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers Yes
Richard Dent, DE – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles Yes**
Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers No
Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers No
Russ Grimm, G – 1981-1991 Washington Redskins No
** Ray Guy, P – 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders Yes**
Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys No
Lester Hayes, CB – 1977-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders No
Rickey Jackson, LB – 1981-1993 New Orleans Saints, 1994-95 San Francisco 49ers No
** Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks Yes**
Art Modell, Owner – 1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2003 Baltimore Ravens No No No No
John Randle, DT – 1990-2000 Minnesota Vikings, 2001-03 Seattle Seahawks Yes
** Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins Yes
Jerry Rice, WR – 1985-2000 San Francisco 49ers, 2001-04 Oakland Raiders, 2004 Seattle Seahawks Yes
Shannon Sharpe, TE – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens Yes
Emmitt Smith, RB – 1990-2002 Dallas Cowboys, 2003-04 Arizona Cardinals Yes**
** Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League Yes**
Steve Tasker, Special Teams/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills No
Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams Yes

Here’s my first quick impression ballot. Didn’t really dig down too deep, but this is just what I think from my memory of watching them all play.

[ul]
[li]It would be really cool if Steve Tasker got in, I loved watching the guy but there’s no way he deserves it. [/li][li]No to Haley, the guy was never much better than average but he played on a bunch of really good teams in a very public fashion, and frankly his career wasn’t very long or durable. [/li][li]Aeneas Williams was a forgotten great. I loved when he got a title in St Louis. [/li][li]Sharpe deserves it so long as he doesn’'t get to make a speech. [/li][li]Emmitt and Shannon’s speeches will need closed captioning and translation. [/li][li]Reed was one of the best WRs who ever played, I think he’s more deserving than Carter even. [/li][li]I’m not sure how great Randle was but I never watched a game where he wasn’t in the middle of it. [/li][li]Cortez Kennedy is another forgotten guy, one of the best Seahawks ever. [/li][li]Kevin Greene was more sizzle than steak. Before he got to the Steelers hardly anyone noticed him and after that it was rarely for his play on the field. [/li][li]Doleman and Craig were great for too short of a period of time.[/li][li]Tim Brown was exciting and durable but I can’t help but wonder how much of that was just because he played his whole career in that Raiders passing scheme. The end of his career was kinda depressing.[/li][/ul]

25

Crap, I can’t believe I left Reed off my earlier post.

26

Randle was the prototype 3-technique defensive tackle. He was Warren Sapp before there was a Warren Sapp, and he absolutely changed the game.

Greene had 46 sacks over three seasons in St. Louis, so it’s not his fault if nobody noticed him. Plus, he led the league in sacks twice, and retired as the league’s all time sack leader among linebackers (and third overall).

27

How exactly did playing for the Raiders help him? Brown came into the league in '88. For the first 11 years of his career, his quarterbacks were Jay Schroeder, Jeff Hostetler, Jeff George, and Donald Hollas. Now, these were generally decent passing offenses, but they were nothing to write home about, and certainly not enough to damn an extremely successful WR as a mere system player. Not until he was 33 years old did Tim Brown have one of the better Quarterbacks in the league throwing to him (Rich Gannon).

Granted, it’s a weird case in that he had more of a Cooperstown career than a Canton one.

28

Like I said above, it wasn’t a scientifically considered approach. Just a snap impression, but the idea what that while Brown had some excellent numbers and totals it was essentially a brute force approach. The Raiders threw the ball deep so much and so stubbornly for his whole career that his numbers were a little inflated. I suspect that a lot of guys could have put up big numbers by being the primary option on 8-10 deep go routes a game. I’m willing to be proven wrong on this, but I don’t remember ever watching a Raiders game and being scared of what Brown might do. He could go big at any point, but you knew the majority of those passes would be incomplete and kill drives.

29

My impression of Brown was that he was less of a speed burner (e.g. Branch, who won’t make it) and more of a possession receiver (a la Freddie B). At any rate he’s pretty overqualified for the Hall-4th in total catches being his #1 argument. Then again they made Art Monk wait 8 years…

Ray Guy is 64th in gross punting average. You’d think the best punter in the history of the league would be a bit higher on said list. But. Two things kept his average down: #1, the Raiders were typically such a good offensive team that they often punted from a location which minimized the maximum distance he could achieve, and #2, in his 2nd year they moved the goalposts back, which meant more punts from the opposing team’s side of the field, again limiting gross distance. In his rookie year he was at 45.3 yards, 2nd in the league. If you look at the punting list (can’t find the net list-at that site at least), it’s riddled with guys from the last 20 years and several old-timers, but nobody, and I mean nobody, from Guy’s era (other than Jerrel Wilson, #1 in Guy’s rookie year, who only played 5 years under the new rules). Heck I remember the Raiders, with an endless succession of weak-legged placekickers, sometimes punting from around the 32 yard line. Probably still not enough to get him in tho.

30

While I hate Modell with a white hot passion and hope he gets a negative number of HOF votes, there are a couple of mis-statements here. Modell’s firing of Coach Paul Brown WAS justified. If the employee doesn’t make any effort to get along with the guy signing the paychecks, it is always the employee who has to hit the road. Also, Brown had become arrogant and too set in his ways, according to Jim Brown and others. Brown wouldn’t listen to his assistants, including Blanton Collier, who took over as coach once Brown was fired by Modell, and Collier turned out to be a great coach himself. Collier is a very underrated football coach, whose career was cut short by deafness.

Further, Modell didn’t fire Jim Brown. Jim was tired of football and left to star in movies with Raquel Welch. Can’t say I blame Jim Brown for that.

Finally, to say Modell didn’t do anything for the NFL isn’t true either. Modell had been in advertising before coming to football, and was instrumental in negotiating rich TV contracts for the league. He was also a key player in the NFL/AFL merger talks, his agreement to move the Browns to the AFC and talking Baltimore and Pittsburgh into coming along with him being a key part of the settlement.

31

Paul Brown may have been arrogant, but he was still an enourmously successful coach. It’s not as if his team had been on the decline - they were still very successful. If Modell had less of an ego and demanded that his interference be tolerated, Brown could’ve coached several more successful years. It seems more about Modell’s ego than Brown’s incompetance.

As for Jim Brown - he intended to come back and play football that year, after he was finished shooting the movie. He just wanted an extra few days IIRC to show up to training camp, but Modell gave him an ultimatum that he had to show up at training camp or else, and Jim Brown didn’t bow down to anyone. Again it was his own arrogance and ego that got him. Brown probably would’ve played a few more years if he was treated with more respect.

As for the TV contracts and all that - I barely care. He helped make some super rich people even more rich - it certainly doesn’t hold a candle to taking a big shit on an entire fanbase several times.

His nominations for the hall are solely based on financial concerns - his fellow owners patting him on the back for enriching them while fucking the common fan - and it’s even more repugnant that he might make it in.

32

Giving him credit for the TV deals and merger somehow implies that either one of those things wouldn’t have happened anyways. Getting the TV networks to sign big contracts to show the most popular sport in the country isn’t exactly parting the Red Sea. And I’ve never heard anyone argue that Modell was in any way singular in the merger.

The guy is pure and utter shit. His “accomplishments” are pure retconning.

33

Not quite: the Browns’ record in 1962 was 7-6-1, and in 1961 was 8-5-1, good enough by modern standards but a considerable drop-off from the Browns’ peak under Coach Brown. After playing for the league championship in each of their first 10 years under him, by 1962 they hadn’t won the title since 1955 and hadn’t appeared in the title game since 1957 (when they were smoked by the Lions by 40 points.) There was considerable evidence that the rest of the league had caught up to his methods by 1962.

Like I said, I’m not a Modell supporter by any means. Anybody who couldn’t make money on football in Cleveland couldn’t make money selling suntan lotion in Hawaii. But facts is facts.

34

I can’t believe that Don Coryell and Lester Hayes aren’t already in.

.

35

…yet the Browns won the NFL Championship in 1964. Put me in the “no way for Modell” camp.

36

This is my final word on the subject, but the Browns’ 1964 title is a credit to Modell & Collier and not to Paul Brown, since the coach in '64 was Collier, who was hired by Modell after Modell fired Brown, and not Brown. Collier got the team over the hump that Brown couldn’t anymore. IMHO.

Damn Modell to hell.

37

This is the main argument I’ve always heard for including Kenny Stabler in the HoF. A lot of people don’t think his play warrants inclusion, but most everyone agrees that you can’t tell the history of the game without mentioning his name several times over.

38

Having a plaque/bust in the HoF isn’t the only way the history of the game is told. Stabler and the likes will get plenty of talk in the Hall without having a bust.

39

Count me as another baffled that Don Coryell is still waiting to get in. I know he never won a Super Bowl, but that alone should not be keeping him out. I hope that since he’s the only coach on the list this time, that at long last this is his year. At 85, he doesn’t have too many years left. :frowning:

40

It definitely seems like the Hall voters are still struggling with figuring out how to assess receivers in the modern era.

Go over and look at the discussion thread here on the Baseball Hall candidates; Monk suffered from some of the same issues that Bert Blyleven did (few if any All-Pro selections, only led the league in receptions once), and that was often pointed to by his detractors.