# 2011 NFL Draft **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 9, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786 "2011-04-09T17:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/621 "2011-05-03T17:53:43Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > 3rd Round, 96th pick > > **Alex Green** , RB, Hawaii (6-0, 225) > > Not a fan. He’s a good fit as a 3rd down back, and if he gets stronger, may be a nice short yardage guy, but he was a huge reach in the 3rd round. I liked Helu, Carter, Jones, Powell, and Hunter better than Green. Also, I don’t think RB is a huge area of need that would require a reach like that. I was hoping for a DE here, maybe Allen Bailey or Drake Nevis, but, just like in the first round, they were scooped up before the Packers picked. I probably would have taken Christian Ballard or Sam Acho here instead. I could not disagree more. We absolutely needed to shore up our running back depth. I am not sold on James Stark, Ryan Grant is a question mark after being out a year, Brandon Jackson is likely gone. Depth at running back is a key to success. Green sounds like an excellent third down back. To say he is a huge reach is a huge overstatement. The Packers third round is almost the fourth round which is where it seems most thought he might go. I like Sam Acho as well, but Christian Ballard not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/622 "2011-05-03T18:28:47Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I could not disagree more. We absolutely needed to shore up our running back depth. I am not sold on James Stark, Ryan Grant is a question mark after being out a year, Brandon Jackson is likely gone. Depth at running back is a key to success. Green sounds like an excellent third down back. To say he is a huge reach is a huge overstatement. I listed 5 other running backs I would have preferred to Green, and could probably list another 4 (DERRICK LOCKE). For that reason alone, I think he was a reach. I hope I’m wrong. I hope Green is better than a passable 3rd down back, but he doesn’t really get me excited at all. I also think that there will be more RB’s available in free agency (whether undrafted or normal) that could fill the need. Guys like Ronnie Brown, Michael Bush, Addai, Bradshaw, Harrison, Hart, Norwood, Sproles, and on and on might be available. Given the dearth of other options and my lack of Green-love, I thought it was a reach. Hopefully, I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/623 "2011-05-03T18:48:35Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I listed 5 other running backs I would have preferred to Green, and could probably list another 4 (DERRICK LOCKE). For that reason alone, I think he was a reach. I hope I’m wrong. I hope Green is better than a passable 3rd down back, but he doesn’t really get me excited at all. I also think that there will be more RB’s available in free agency (whether undrafted or normal) that could fill the need. Guys like Ronnie Brown, Michael Bush, Addai, Bradshaw, Harrison, Hart, Norwood, Sproles, and on and on might be available. Given the dearth of other options and my lack of Green-love, I thought it was a reach. Hopefully, I’m wrong. WHile I respectfully disagree with your analysis, I get it. But saying it is a reach when we are talking about a group of running backs that all have pros and cons in almost equal measure it is hard to say it is a reach, IMO. Some of those backs you listed are considerably smaller and not fitting in with what the Packers need. I am not a fan of picking up RBs in FA, the only one there tha twould be a fit in sproles, IMO. Anyway, what about Green’s Butte CC cred? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/624 "2011-05-03T20:35:10Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > **Minnesota Vikings** > But not here. The Vikings cost themselves shots at Ahmad Black, Jason Pinkson, TJ Yates, **Chris Carter** , and Doug Hogue, who I thought would all be great additions in the fifth round (especially Black). Isn’t he getting a bit old these days? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/625 "2011-05-04T00:52:30Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Despite my questionable track record, and the futility that comes with talking about the draft immediately after it happens, I figured I’d go an analysis of the teams I’m interested in. If nothing else, it will give me something to laugh about in 5 years. > > I’ve done the NFL CHAMPION Green Bay Packers already, so I’ll hit the rest of the NFC North, and then any team that interests me, or anybody wants me to do. > > **Chicago Bears** > > Overall: > > Can a draft be graded based on only on the first two picks? If so, the Bears had a very good draft. They got good value at positions of need in the first two rounds. But for an aging team with more than a couple more holes to fill (interior O Line, CB, and WR), I think they may have some troubles down the road because of misses in this draft. I don’t like any of the picks outside of the first two rounds, and they left a few needs unfilled. But they are bigger in free agency than drafts anyway. I was hoping guys wouldn’t fall to them, but they did. > > Round 1, Pick 29 > > **Gabe Carimi** , OL, Wisconsin > > A versatile, solid addition to an incredibly weak offensive line. Great value at a position of major need. You really can’t ask for more out of a late first round draft pick. I really don’t think he’ll cut it on the left side, but who knows, maybe he will. > > I would be remiss if I didn’t mention, once again, that the Bears are a pathetic franchise and shitheads for not following through on what they promised. I don’t care that they did it to the Ravens, who had done it the Vikings before. It’s still a shitty thing to do. But, just like Bush’s WMD’s in Iraq defense, incompetence is better than wilful lying, I guess. > > Round 2, Pick 53 > > **Stephen Paea** , DT, Oregon St. > > The Bears gave up their 4th Round pick to move up 9 spots and grab another good value at a position of need. Personally, I think Paea has a bit too much “workout warrior” in him, and once he hits the NFL, he won’t be able to rely on his impressive brute strength as much as in college. So the question becomes can he develop enough to add interior pass pressure, or will he be just a widebody taking up space. 49 reps is nice, but when a guard easy gets inside your stubby armed body, it’s a different game. Still, all told, a good pick. But there’s some talent there in the 4th round the Bears could have used. > > Round 3, Pick 93 > > **Chris Conte** , DB, California > > A big old Meh. He’s had one good season as a play deep safety, but only has 2 career interceptions and doesn’t have good recognition skills. He was a reach in the 3rd round, and I is much more a project than a starter at this point. But he’s got nice size and speed combination and a bit of versatility, so he may at least be an adequate backup. I want my FS to have more interceptions and big play ability, but he might work in the Tampa 2. > > Round 5, Pick 160 > > **Nathan Enderle** , QB, Idaho > > A developmental QB who kept getting better (after being pretty bad) in college. I don’t think he has the arm strength or smarts to cut it in the NFL, but if you have a clipboard that needs holding, he may be your guy. Mike Martz is the genius, so he must see something I don’t. Too bad that Taylor Yates went a few picks before, because I like him as a prospect much more than Enderle. > > Round 6, Pick 195 > > James Thomas, LB, West Virginia > > If he doesn’t have anyone blocking him and they tell him what the play is beforehand, he’ll make an excellent LB in the NFL. Unfortunately, that doesn’t happen very much. He’s easily blocked and doesn’t have the best play recognition skills. But he’s fast and a good tackler, so maybe he can develop into a starter. I doubt it though. I’ll just add one consideration. The Bears surrendered their 7th round pick in this draft to select RB Harvey Unga from the 2010 Supplemental Draft. Unga was essentially redshirted last year and was a very productive college player with elite pass catching and solid blocking skills out of the backfield. He could be a terrific addition, especially around the red zone, and should count towards this draft. Most people had him rated as a 4th round prospect and I think he’s clearly a better prospect than anyone taken in this draft after the 5th round. Obviously not going to make or break a draft, but it’s one more hole filled in a pretty important spot and at a pretty good value. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/626 "2011-05-04T09:13:37Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I think you’ve confused two different things. There is a difference between me saying “he’s not worth it here” and you saying “you can take him when you get him”. I don’t care how many other teams want Watkins, I don’t think he’s worth a first round pick. To me, there wasn’t much difference between Watkins, Ronnie Hudson, Steve Wisnewskiingincoloradoisfun, and he was worse than Carimi, Sherrod, Cam Jordan, and others. And I think one of the easiest ways to ruin your draft is to have “your guy” and go get him no matter what. Most teams recognize that they have to have more than one “your guy”. And I didn’t see enough special about Watkins to make him “my one and only guy”. I think there’s a larger discussion here that’s worth the time, but I don’t think now is that time. “Value” in an NFL draft is a nigh impossible thing to quantify or reason. There are too many unknowable variables. I just don’t know how you can definitively say that Watkins was worse than these guys or just the same as these other guys, I find that indefensible. Especially for the offensive line where measurable performance is pretty much non-existant. I can say this though, nobody you mentioned can really compare to Danny Watkins. Jordan isn’t a lineman, Carimi and Sherrod are tackles who would have to be converted, Wisnewski and Hudson were both second round centers or lower. Watkins is the only pure guard there, so that matters somewhat. > [@](#): > > I agree it is easier for the Eagles or the Pats (Gostkowski) to take a kicker in the fourth round than other teams. But I think the fact that a vast majority of kickers aren’t taken that high, and yet teams somehow survive, speaks volumes about their worth. On average, the first kicker off the board over the last ten years has come in the fourth round, and this excludes Janikowski in 2000. So this isn’t any out of the ordinary in this case. Your overall point is a fair one, but I think an exception can be made for arguably the greatest college kicker of all time. I would much rather draft one I can probably count on than play kicker roulette with the same tired kickers every other year that I can only hope to count on. I was originally shocked the Eagles drafted a kicker so high, but then I got it. It makes sense. This isn’t a team that wants to play kicker roulette or is used to doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/627 "2011-05-04T11:57:45Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > I think there’s a larger discussion here that’s worth the time, but I don’t think now is that time. “Value” in an NFL draft is a nigh impossible thing to quantify or reason. There are too many unknowable variables. It is very tough. I generally use the term value to describe where I have a guy ranked. If he’s my 100th ranked person, and he’s drafted 25th, he’s bad value. If he’s my 13th guy and he’s drafted 146th, he’s great value. (Don’t get me wrong, I don’t actually rank everyone, it’s just rough ideas). It is, of course, based on unknowable variables. > [@Jules Andre](#): > > I just don’t know how you can definitively say that Watkins was worse than these guys or just the same as these other guys, I find that indefensible. Especially for the offensive line where measurable performance is pretty much non-existant. It’s an opinion. Of course nobody right now can say Watkins will be worse than anyone I mentioned. Or better than them. It’s simply an opinion on the future holds. > [@Jules Andre](#): > > I can say this though, nobody you mentioned can really compare to Danny Watkins. Jordan isn’t a lineman, Carimi and Sherrod are tackles who would have to be converted, Wisnewski and Hudson were both second round centers or lower. Watkins is the only pure guard there, so that matters somewhat. Just as I think that having only one “your guy” is poor drafting technique, so is drafting the best \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ available. To me, the best plan is to take the best player available, and if you have a bunch of guys who are all roughly equal, then you take the one who fills a position of need. Had Danny Watkins been drafted before the Eagles got him, would you have wanted them to simply draft the next highest rated guard on their board? > [@Jules Andre](#): > > On average, the first kicker off the board over the last ten years has come in the fourth round, and this excludes Janikowski in 2000. So this isn’t any out of the ordinary in this case. Your overall point is a fair one, but I think an exception can be made for arguably the greatest college kicker of all time. I would much rather draft one I can probably count on than play kicker roulette with the same tired kickers every other year that I can only hope to count on. I was originally shocked the Eagles drafted a kicker so high, but then I got it. It makes sense. This isn’t a team that wants to play kicker roulette or is used to doing so. Henery may very well be the best kicker ever, and, if so, he’ll be well worth the 4th round pick invested in him. But given the number of highly drafted kickers who haven’t worked out or haven’t outperformed other kickers selected later, and the number of kickers who have succeeded after being drafted later rounds, I generally speaking, don’t think they’re worth it. Henery, though, might be. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/628 "2011-05-04T12:58:03Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > On average, the first kicker off the board over the last ten years has come in the fourth round, and this excludes Janikowski in 2000. 2010-None 2009-5th Buehler 2008-6th Mehlhaff 2007-5th Medlock 2006-4th Gostkowski 2005-2nd Nugent 2004-3rd Kaeding 2003-7th Brown 2002-4th Chandler 2001-4th Gramatica 2000-1st Janikowski The average seems closer to the 5th round, really. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/629 "2011-05-04T13:21:52Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > 2010-None > 2009-5th Buehler > 2008-6th Mehlhaff > 2007-5th Medlock > 2006-4th Gostkowski > 2005-2nd Nugent > 2004-3rd Kaeding > 2003-7th Brown > 2002-4th Chandler > 2001-4th Gramatica > 2000-1st Janikowski > > The average seems closer to the 5th round, really. And that’s only the ones that were drafted. Guys like David Akers, Dan Carpenter, Matt Bryant, Billy Cundiff, Adam Vinatieri, and Robbie Gould (all top 10 kickers) were undrafted free agents, which would drag the average down further. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/630 "2011-05-04T13:43:26Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Isn’t he getting a bit old these days? 😉 That’s Cris Carter. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/631 "2011-05-04T13:48:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s Cris Carter. The guy who wrote X Files? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/632 "2011-05-04T14:01:47Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > 2010-None > 2009-5th Buehler > 2008-6th Mehlhaff > 2007-5th Medlock > 2006-4th Gostkowski > 2005-2nd Nugent > 2004-3rd Kaeding > 2003-7th Brown > 2002-4th Chandler > 2001-4th Gramatica > 2000-1st Janikowski > > The average seems closer to the 5th round, really. Median is 4.5 (leaving out 2000, reordering, bolding #5 & #6: [2 3 4 4 **4 5** 5 6 7 -]) ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/633 "2011-05-04T14:09:10Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Median is 4.5 (leaving out 2000, reordering, bolding #5 & #6: [2 3 4 4 **4 5** 5 6 7 -]) I counted the lack of pick in 2010 as the 8th round to get a 4.8, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/634 "2011-05-04T14:43:20Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > The guy who wrote X Files? Well, he’s old too I guess. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/635 "2011-05-04T15:34:02Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > But given the number of highly drafted kickers who haven’t worked out or haven’t outperformed other kickers selected later, and the number of kickers who have succeeded after being drafted later rounds, I generally speaking, don’t think they’re worth it. I tend to agree (though, if Henery turns out to be “the best kicker ever”, a fourth-round pick for him might be a steal). Janikowski’s never made a Pro Bowl, and he ranks 29th among active kickers on field goal percentage. He has a huge leg, but he’s almost undoubtedly another example of a reach in the first round for the Raiders. Nugent didn’t last 4 seasons with the Jets, and he’s bounced around since. Brett Conway (Packers’ third-round pick in '97) couldn’t even make the final roster cut (beaten out by free agent Ryan Longwell), and wound up playing a total of 51 games for 5 teams. I mentioned the infamous Russell Erxleben earlier; the Cardinals drafted Erxleben’s SWC rival, Steve Little, in the 1st round as well. Little was terrible as both a kicker and a punter; he was cut by the Cards during his third season, and crashed his car a few hours after being cut, winding up a quadraplegic. Kaeding’s the active leader in field goal percentage, and has been to the Pro Bowl twice, which is pretty good production for a 3rd round pick. Jason Hanson (2nd round pick of the Lions in '92) also panned out pretty well. OTOH, of the top ten active kickers in field-goal percentage, only two (Kaeding and Gostkowski) were drafted. Adam Vinatieri, who likely has a shot at being the second pure kicker to make it to the Hall of Fame, was, of course, undrafted. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/636 "2011-05-04T15:43:49Z")
Mike Nugent is the clearest example of why you shouldn’t use a high draft pick on a kicker. He was the most clutch college kicker I’ve ever seen, but has been thoroughly average as a pro. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/637 "2011-05-04T15:57:26Z")
BENGALS Draft: 1. AJ Green: Fucking Stud 2. Andy Dalton: Ginger Stud. Paint black stripes on his hair and he won’t even need a helmet! 3. Dontay Moch: Fast Stud 4. Clint Boling: Big Fucking Stud 5. Robert Sands: Predator Stud 6. Ryan Whalen: Stanford Stud 7. Korey Lindsay: Saluki Stud Grade: A+++ Super Awesomeness! ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/638 "2011-05-04T16:10:57Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > BENGALS Draft: > > 1. AJ Green: Fucking Stud > > 2. Andy Dalton: Ginger Stud. Paint black stripes on his hair and he won’t even need a helmet! > > 3. Dontay Moch: Fast Stud > > 4. Clint Boling: Big Fucking Stud > > 5. Robert Sands: Predator Stud > > 6. Ryan Whalen: Stanford Stud > > 7. Korey Lindsay: Saluki Stud > > Grade: A+++ Super Awesomeness! Which NFL team are you a fan of again? I forget. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/639 "2011-05-04T16:13:26Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Which NFL team are you a fan of again? I forget. I love the Steelers with an unhealthy homo-erotic crush on Hines Ward. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786/640 "2011-05-04T16:22:28Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I love the Steelers with an unhealthy homo-erotic crush on Hines Ward. It’s almost noon. If you’re really a Steeler fan, aren’t you supposed to be drunk by now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-nfl-draft/577786.md?page=33)