# 2011 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominees **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486 "2010-09-29T16:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/61 "2010-09-30T04:06:06Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Once more, I can’t play videos on my computer. > > I was writing that post before Equipoise replied. Is it because of a slow connection, or slow computer? > > Either way, you picked two you could make a weak argument against, rather than two could NOT argue against, two huge hits that were written by Laura Nyro that were undeniably rock - Blood, Sweat & Tears’ “And When I Die” and Three Dog Night’s “Eli’s Comin” - two songs that any self-professed “rock encyclopedia” should already know. Well, _I_ know those songs, and they’re weak examples of why she belongs in the HoF. She was covered by mediocre rock artists and MOR/easy listening tripe like the 5th Dimension and Streisand, and that’s supposed to work in her _favor_? I’m acquainted with her solo work, as well, and beyond just not being into it, I don’t think it’s worthy of being inducted. Having said that, neither are 75% of the acts in there, and she’s arguably more influential than some others. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/62 "2010-09-30T04:07:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Blood Sweat and Tears weren’t even really rock, they were like a big band, soul kind of thing, which is something I’ve never been into. I like guitars, not horn sections. Then, in point of fact, you are clearly _not_ a fan of rock and roll. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/63 "2010-09-30T04:08:48Z")
Rock is about excess and self-indulgence too, but I would argue that Rush deserves to be in there on the strength of their musicianship alone. The most accomplished power trio in rock history. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/64 "2010-09-30T04:10:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m attracted to strong songwriting Oh, and that’s why you’ve never heard of Laura Nyro. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/65 "2010-09-30T04:11:32Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Blood Sweat and Tears weren’t even really rock, they were like a big band, soul kind of thing, which is something I’ve never been into. I like guitars, not horn sections. > > Then, in point of fact, you are clearly _not_ a fan of rock and roll. Rock and roll is guitars, bass, drums and vocals. It’s minimalist. it’s stripped down. The focus is supposed to be on the guitar. Horn sections have no place in rock and roll. I don’t even like keyboards. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/66 "2010-09-30T04:13:29Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > I’m attracted to strong songwriting > > Oh, and that’s why you’ve never heard of Laura Nyro. :rolleyes: Evidently. If she wrote for shit acts like Streisand and 5th Dimension, how good could she have been? ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/67 "2010-09-30T04:22:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@MTCicero](#): > > > > Then, in point of fact, you are clearly _not_ a fan of rock and roll. > > Rock and roll is guitars, bass, drums and vocals. It’s minimalist. it’s stripped down. The focus is supposed to be on the guitar. Horn sections have no place in rock and roll. I don’t even like keyboards. Jesus, maybe you really _should_ take a nap. No place for horns or keyboards in rock and roll? Well, apparently, no one told that to [Lou Reed](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ88oTITMoM), [Fats Domino](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjX1vFk384s), [Johnny Cash](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lhf9U5Wf3Q), or [The Clash](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPVQKQgSWgM). ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/68 "2010-09-30T04:23:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Oh, and that’s why you’ve never heard of Laura Nyro. :rolleyes: > > Evidently. If she wrote for shit acts like Streisand and 5th Dimension, how good could she have been? Proof positive you don’t know shit about music. Really, stop it. Remember the last pit thread about you Dio, where you talked about your problem with over-expressing ill formed opinions without backing down? This is one of those times. Best course of action for you right now it to STFU and find your humility somehow. Thanks for your consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/69 "2010-09-30T04:26:55Z")
Please. Rock music is my wheelhouse, man. I’m sorry I don’t like your easy-listening, afternoon AM radio music, but that’s not what I call rock and roll. I haven’t even expressed an opinion about this Laura Nyro person. All I’ve said is that I’ve never heard of her. Since she was evidently a songwriter who served an era-specific subgenre that I have no interest in, that explains why. I like guitar rock. I am an encyclopedia of _guitar_ rock. As far as I’m concerned, guitar rock is the _only_ rock. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/70 "2010-09-30T04:27:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > > > Oh, and that’s why you’ve never heard of Laura Nyro. :rolleyes: > > Evidently. If she wrote for shit acts like Streisand and 5th Dimension, how good could she have been? “Wrote for”? She wrote songs for her own albums. Other artists covered them. That’s as stupid as claiming Lennon and McCartney “wrote for” William Shatner because he covered “Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds”. When you’re in a hole, first thing is to stop digging. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/71 "2010-09-30T04:32:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Please. Rock music is my wheelhouse, man. I’m sorry I don’t like your easy-listening, afternoon AM radio music, but that’s not what I call rock and roll. I haven’t even expressed an opinion about this Laura Nyro person. All I’ve said is that I’ve never heard of her. Since she was evidently a songwriter who served an era-specific subgenre that I have no interest in, that explains why. I like guitar rock. I am an encyclopedia of _guitar_ rock. As far as I’m concerned, guitar rock is the _only_ rock. Thanks, truly, for the laugh. I’m almost sure it was unintentional, but thanks all the same. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/72 "2010-09-30T04:34:28Z")
Y’know, **Dio** , I used to try and “talk down” **Liberal** (_nee_ “Libertarian”) when he got on a self destructive tear. He was a well intentioned and sometimes brilliant contrarian commentator with horribly glaring flaws that made him a frequent asshole on these fora. I miss him. You’re much worse in your intractability. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/73 "2010-09-30T04:44:17Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Evidently. If she wrote for shit acts like Streisand and 5th Dimension, how good could she have been? > > “Wrote for”? She wrote songs for her own albums. Other artists covered them. That’s as stupid as claiming Lennon and McCartney “wrote for” William Shatner because he covered “Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds”. > > When you’re in a hole, first thing is to stop digging. I’m not in a hole. I’ve never heard of her. If she performed her own stuff, I’ve still never heard of her. What exactly am I supposed to be wrong about here? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/74 "2010-09-30T04:45:41Z")
It occurs to me I’ve been overly personal and combative in a forum not intended for that. I don’t feel like pitting anyone, and I have no excuse for bringing the attitude to this thread. I apologize to you **Diogenes the Cynic** , and also to all other participants. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/75 "2010-09-30T04:48:50Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Y’know, **Dio** , I used to try and “talk down” **Liberal** (_nee_ “Libertarian”) when he got on a self destructive tear. He was a well intentioned and sometimes brilliant contrarian commentator with horribly glaring flaws that made him a frequent asshole on these fora. I miss him. > > You’re much worse in your intractability. What am I supposed to retract? All I’ve said is that I’ve never heard of this person. Apparently she wrote middle of the road mayonnaise in the late 60’s. That would explain why. I was a little kid at the time, and it’s not a pocket of popular music I would ever have had any interest in researching after the fact. What exactly about her songwriting is believed to have been influential? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/76 "2010-09-30T04:50:24Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > It occurs to me I’ve been overly personal and combative in a forum not intended for that. I don’t feel like pitting anyone, and I have no excuse for bringing the attitude to this thread. > > I apologize to you **Diogenes the Cynic** , and also to all other participants. No worries, but I wasn’t trying to antagonize anybody either. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/77 "2010-09-30T04:59:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What am I supposed to retract? All I’ve said is that I’ve never heard of this person. Apparently she wrote middle of the road mayonnaise in the late 60’s. Apparently you haven’t even heard any of her music or the covers of her music so you really should just shut up because you have no idea what you’re talking about. And I said in my original post that you not knowing who she is is not the problem. Your being such a dick toward her just because she was in the nominee list is the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/78 "2010-09-30T05:05:48Z")
I’m not being a dick to her. I’m just saying I’ve never heard of her. Whoever she was, she wasn’t as well known or important as Rush and Kiss. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/79 "2010-09-30T05:12:26Z")
**Dio** , you understand that “middle of the road mayonnaise” is a harsh characterization, right? The fact that you admit that opinion is not informed by any actual familiarity with her works compounds the arbitrariness of the pronouncement. It’s made even more controversial by your dismissal of some very talented people who covered her material as “shit acts”. That’s kinda right in the “wheelhouse” of dickishness. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/80 "2010-09-30T05:25:48Z")
And for the record, Blood, Sweat & Tears was a fucking good **rock** band–to be sure, a rock band that incorporated elements of jazz, R&B, classical, and yes, even a bit of easy listening; the eclecticism was one of the things that made them great–with the very talented Steve Katz on _guitar._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486.md?page=5)