# 2011 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominees **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486 "2010-09-29T16:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/101 "2010-09-30T16:16:37Z")
Alice Cooper, from whom Kiss stole their whole shtick, made a very classy statement about being nominated for the Hall of Fame, including these words: > [@Alice Cooper](#): > > It’s hard to fathom possibly being in the same club as artists who inspired us originally, like the Beatles, the Stones, the Beach Boys, the Who, the Yardbirds, and Chuck Berry, and to be nominated the same year as legendary artists like my personal favorite songwriter of all time, Laura Nyro… ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/102 "2010-09-30T16:17:50Z")
All of us can think of artists or bands WE love that aren’t in the Hall of Fame, and it’s EASY for us to get on our high horses and make a case that they belong. I think it would be a little more interesting to make a case for the induction of acts we DON’T like. In deciding who’s worthy, I think ALL of the following are valid considerations: 1. Did they sell a LOT of records over a period of years? 2. Were they a popular live act that filled large arenas repeatedly over a period of years? 3. Did they shape fashion? Did large numbers of people copy their clothes and hairstyles? 4. Did they shape social or political attitudes? 5. Was their music influential? Did they inspire a lot of other bands to play their kind of music? If an act did more than two of those things, I’d say that act belongs in the Hall of Fame, even if I think their music absolutely reeks. Conversely, there are a lot of acts whose music I love that I would say DON’T belong, because they just weren’t popular or influential enough for long enough. As I said, it’s EASY to make a case for artists you like, but using the above criteria, I HAVE to support the enshrinement of all kinds of acts I hate! I hate 90% of Madonna’s music, but by my criteria, I DEFINITELY would have voted for her. I think most of Pat Boone’s music was lame and some of it was flat-out awful, but he DEFINITELY belongs in the Hall of Fame. He was the second most popular recording artist of the Fifties (just a hair behind Elvis), and Pat Boone was THE artist who introduced tens of millions of kids to rock and roll. I’m not a 14 year old boy any more, and don’t really care about Kiss’ music today, but I don’t see how anyone can argue that they weren’t extremely popular AND extremely influential. Of course, Alice Cooper did a LOT of what Kiss did long before Kiss did, so Alice should be inducted before Kiss. But face it, every time you see a heavy metal band doing a pyrotechnic show, you’re seeing the influence of Kiss. That HAS to count for something. I’m going to make two lists, and request that other people make similar lists: List 1: Acts You Love That Aren’t in the Hall of Fame but Definitely SHOULD be: List 2: Acts You DON’T Like That you Think Belong. _ **Acts Astorian Likes that Aren’t In the Hall But SHOULD Be:** _ Alice Cooper Deep Purple King Crimson The Monkees Moody Blues Roxy Music Yes _ **Acts Astorian DOESN’T Like That Aren’t In the Hall But SHOULD Be** _ Pat Boone Culture Club Kiss Kraftwerk (definitely a huge influence on synth-pop) Paul Revere and the Raiders _ **Acts Astorian Is On the Fence About, But Are DEFINITELY More Worthy Than Half the People Already In** _ (the Ron Santos and Bert Blylevens of Rock): Boston Chicago Rush Styx ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/103 "2010-09-30T16:21:34Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > **Huerta88** vastly overstates the role of Objectivism in Rush’s music. He probably does this because he tends toward the right wing and would like Objectivism to be popular in some fashion, but the truth is that Neil Peart had a relatively passing affiliation with Objectivism in the 70s, most prominently manifesting in the album 2112. Yes I’m leaning right, no I don’t care at all to promote Objectivism – I’ve never met a Rand disciple that I could take seriously. Like it or not, though, it’s not just one person who has referred to Rush in my hearing as “that Ayn Rand band.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/104 "2010-09-30T16:41:27Z")
Ayn Rand’s influence on the band is really overstated, though. Neil Peart had a passing fancy with her, but is no acolyte. He’s more libertarian than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/105 "2010-09-30T17:07:05Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Yes I’m leaning right, no I don’t care at all to promote Objectivism – I’ve never met a Rand disciple that I could take seriously. Like it or not, though, it’s not just one person who has referred to Rush in my hearing as “that Ayn Rand band.” Of course you’re not. Typically, however, those that do are those that would also like to promote Objectivism, in my experience. Peart has explicitly distanced himself from Rand and Objectivism, and has described himself as a left-leaning libertarian. I took a fair bit of time in Great Debates once to provide a whole bunch of examples from Rush lyrics that run counter to Objectivism. On the subject at hand, I’m not a fan of Kiss, but they’re a great example of a band that should be in. I am a fan of Yes, and think that the fact that they are not in as another example of a travesty within the selection process. I’m not at all familiar with Laura Nyro either. I’ll believe you if you tell me that she has been influential as a song writer. I am familiar with Eli’s Coming. It’s a good song. However, as a fan visiting the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I’m still going to pass by the display pertaining to Laura Nyro and go, “Hmmm, who? Oh yeah, right, she wrote Eli’s Coming” and then move on. I wouldn’t really oppose her induction in the same way that I would Donna Summer or other non-Rock and Roll acts, since she was actually involved in Rock and Roll, but all the acts listed by Astorian (except Pat Boone) deserve to go in before someone who wrote Eli’s Coming. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/106 "2010-09-30T17:23:41Z")
Every HOF exists, in part, to foment discussion and angst about those who are not inducted. Because certainly, every artist listed contributed something to the development of RnR. Neil Diamond certainly belongs in the HOF - contributions as a songwriter and a performer put him there. I don’t like them much, but the Beastie Boys probably should be in, too, maybe not before others like LL Cool J. Donna Summer… I like her as an artist okay, and she definitely was huge in the late 70s, but I see her purely as a performer of Giorgio Moroder’s work and production. He should be in, if he isn’t already. I think any good singer could have done “I Feel Love” or “On The Radio.” Now if she was the songwriter and/or was involved in the production aspects of those songs, I’ll tip my hat and give her credit. ---
**Author:** ![multimediac17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@multimediac17](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/multimediac17)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/107 "2010-09-30T17:57:46Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Donna Summer… I like her as an artist okay, and she definitely was huge in the late 70s, but I see her purely as a performer of Giorgio Moroder’s work and production. He should be in, if he isn’t already. I think any good singer could have done “I Feel Love” or “On The Radio.” Now if she was the songwriter and/or was involved in the production aspects of those songs, I’ll tip my hat and give her credit. I agree. I think Donna Summer should be in there but not before Giorgio Moroder, who basically invented the whole concept of Donna Summer. Somebody upthread mentioned Kraftwerk - absolutely. I cannot think of an artist more influential in dance music (perhaps equal with Moroder). I got into Kraftwerk years after getting into electronic music and it was a revelation to hear where all those sounds came from, like I imagine it would be if you were into to rock music for a decade and then suddenly discovered Led Zeppelin. They’re so far removed from some people’s boring definition of “rock and roll” though, so their inclusion might be too controversial. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/108 "2010-09-30T18:49:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She was in the Carole King mode, huh? Well that’s nice, but it ain’t rock and roll. All I can say is that you have a far narrower definition of what is and is not “rock and roll” than many others. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/109 "2010-09-30T19:19:07Z")
> [@multimediac17](#): > > Somebody upthread mentioned Kraftwerk - absolutely. I cannot think of an artist more influential in dance music (perhaps equal with Moroder). I got into Kraftwerk years after getting into electronic music and it was a revelation to hear where all those sounds came from, like I imagine it would be if you were into to rock music for a decade and then suddenly discovered Led Zeppelin. They’re so far removed from some people’s boring definition of “rock and roll” though, so their inclusion might be too controversial. Oh man, so much agreement here. If it has synths and/or drum machines Kraftwerk did it first. Something like “Autobahn” or “Tour de France” sounds like it was recorded yesterday. You could play it in a club and you’d have people swearing it was brand new, in in fact it was recorded 30 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![multimediac17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@multimediac17](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/multimediac17)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/110 "2010-09-30T19:22:25Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > > [@multimediac17](#): > > > > Somebody upthread mentioned Kraftwerk - absolutely. I cannot think of an artist more influential in dance music (perhaps equal with Moroder). I got into Kraftwerk years after getting into electronic music and it was a revelation to hear where all those sounds came from, like I imagine it would be if you were into to rock music for a decade and then suddenly discovered Led Zeppelin. They’re so far removed from some people’s boring definition of “rock and roll” though, so their inclusion might be too controversial. > > Oh man, so much agreement here. If it has synths and/or drum machines Kraftwerk did it first. Something like “Autobahn” or “Tour de France” sounds like it was recorded yesterday. You could play it in a club and you’d have people swearing it was brand new, in in fact it was recorded 30 years ago. When I first started hearing Kraftwerk I was just floored, and could not believe that the sounds I was hearing were from the seventies. _The seventies_. Amazing. It’s such a huge achievement to make something that still sounds like the future decades after it was recorded! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/111 "2010-09-30T20:01:35Z")
Pat BOONE??? Well, then again, he did go through that metal phase… Oh, and I hate Rush. That has nothing to do with whether or not they belong in the HOF. I just wanted to say that I really hate Rush. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/112 "2010-09-30T20:13:50Z")
> [@multimediac17](#): > > Somebody upthread mentioned Kraftwerk - absolutely. I cannot think of an artist more influential in dance music (perhaps equal with Moroder). I got into Kraftwerk years after getting into electronic music and it was a revelation to hear where all those sounds came from, like I imagine it would be if you were into to rock music for a decade and then suddenly discovered Led Zeppelin. They’re so far removed from some people’s boring definition of “rock and roll” though, so their inclusion might be too controversial. > [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Oh man, so much agreement here. If it has synths and/or drum machines Kraftwerk did it first. Something like “Autobahn” or “Tour de France” sounds like it was recorded yesterday. You could play it in a club and you’d have people swearing it was brand new, in in fact it was recorded 30 years ago. > [@multimediac17](#): > > When I first started hearing Kraftwerk I was just floored, and could not believe that the sounds I was hearing were from the seventies. _The seventies_. Amazing. It’s such a huge achievement to make something that still sounds like the future decades after it was recorded! You guys are all so young I could cry. I attended Kraftwerk’s very first concert in America (first stop on first tour, just after Autobahn: some FM stations played the whole song 🆒). They played on four synthesizers on an empty stage, except for four light boxes at their feet giving their names. There were kids in the audience who were there presumably because they went to every concert whether they knew the band or not. How they laughed at the funny names. Ralf! Florian! I think they were at leaast somewhat impressed by the music. Maybe not. Maybe Dio was one of them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/113 "2010-09-30T20:14:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Pat BOONE??? Well, then again, he did go through that metal phase… > Oh, and I hate Rush. That has nothing to do with whether or not they belong in the HOF. I just wanted to say that I really hate Rush. 🙂 Guin- to repeat, I didn’t say Pat Boone’s music was good. I merely point out that he was HUGE in his day, and that only Elvis was a more popular or influential Fifties rocker. You and I may think his white bread version of “Tutti Frutti” or “Ain’t That a Shame” was a lame imitation of a superior original, but the fact remains, he INTRODUCED those songs and the whole rock and roll genre to much of America. In my opinion, that makes him a worthy addition to the Hall of Fame. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/114 "2010-09-30T20:21:59Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Guin- to repeat, I didn’t say Pat Boone’s music was good. I merely point out that he was HUGE in his day, and that only Elvis was a more popular or influential Fifties rocker. Depends on what you mean by “influential”, I guess. He was popular, sure, but when I think “influential” I always associate it with his music influencing other musical artists, which isn’t the case with Boone. Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry were more influential than he was, easily. But if you’re merely talking sales, I guess he’d win. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/115 "2010-09-30T20:38:32Z")
Everything would make more sense if they called it the Pop Music Hall of Fame. ---
**Author:** ![multimediac17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@multimediac17](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/multimediac17)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/116 "2010-09-30T21:09:38Z")
I’ve always taken it to mean the “rock and roll” era, rather than the actual genre of rock and roll, if you know what I mean? Like from the early fifties onwards. That’s why they have the Early Influences category, for major artists like Billie Holiday and Howlin’ Wolf who were too early to be part of rock and roll. They wouldn’t call it the Pop Music Hall of Fame because unfortunately for many people “pop” is a dirty word. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/117 "2010-09-30T21:34:54Z")
While the arguments can be made pro and con for Rush and Kiss being in the HOF, how can anyone argue they don’t even deserve to be on the list of potential nominees? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/118 "2010-09-30T21:45:20Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Depends on what you mean by “influential”, I guess. He was popular, sure, but when I think “influential” I always associate it with his music influencing other musical artists, which isn’t the case with Boone. Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry were more influential than he was, easily. But if you’re merely talking sales, I guess he’d win. My thought exactly. Yes, Boone was popular as heck in the late 50s, largely by doing cover versions of songs by black artists, in the days when those artists’ music wouldn’t get played on many radio stations. I think of him as the whitebread (and probably less talented) Elvis. I don’t see him as being particularly “influential”, other than being the then-socially-acceptable singer, in the right place at the right time. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/119 "2010-09-30T21:49:20Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > > [@astorian](#): > > > > Guin- to repeat, I didn’t say Pat Boone’s music was good. I merely point out that he was HUGE in his day, and that only Elvis was a more popular or influential Fifties rocker. > > Depends on what you mean by “influential”, I guess. He was popular, sure, but when I think “influential” I always associate it with his music influencing other musical artists, which isn’t the case with Boone. Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry were more influential than he was, easily. But if you’re merely talking sales, I guess he’d win. Pat Boone was influential in the sense that he influenced people like me, born in 1954, introducing us to songs that we otherwise were not hearing on the segregated airwaves of the 50s and early 60s. When I heard a Little Richard or Fats Domino song done right, I was already predisposed to like it, having heard the white-bread version a million times. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m a fucking rock encyclopedia. You may know a lot about a very little; I’ve read a lot of your music posts and you seem to view everything about music in terms of your limited experience on the fringe of the business. About most of rock and roll, you don’t seem to know much. Your posts are my cite. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2011-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees/555486/120 "2010-09-30T22:15:07Z")
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