# 2012 Baseball Hall of Fame ballot **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 28, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot/607583 "2011-12-28T01:29:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot/607583/101 "2012-01-11T21:29:53Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > You’re right that nobody cares who’s the winningest pitcher from 94-03. But then again, was there a TV special in 2003 reviewing the biggest stories sinces 1994? Didn’t think so. Yes, thank you for the clarification! “Humans care about arbitrary things.” It doesn’t make them any less arbitrary. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot/607583/102 "2012-01-11T22:34:00Z")
> [@mweb](#): > > David Wells joins the ballot next year and has a better case than Jack Morris imo. How do their ERAs compare? I think the one thing that’s keeping Morris out of the HOF is his 3.90 ERA. It’s too far beyond the upper range of HOF starting pitchers. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot/607583/103 "2012-01-12T01:47:01Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > You’re right that nobody cares who’s the winningest pitcher from 94-03. But then again, was there a TV special in 2003 reviewing the biggest stories sinces 1994? Didn’t think so. Ummm…OK. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot/607583/104 "2012-01-12T02:31:13Z")
On September 11 of last year, there were TV specials reviewing the last decade. Should the pitcher with the most wins between 9/11/01 and 9/11/11 be in the Hall? … This is silly. Morris certainly wasn’t a bad pitcher, but I don’t think he was that great. He racked up a lot of wins in large part because his teams scored a lot of runs. He won some big playoff games, but I just don’t think he was really great or dominant for a long period. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot/607583/105 "2012-01-12T04:20:20Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > How do their ERAs compare? I think the one thing that’s keeping Morris out of the HOF is his 3.90 ERA. It’s too far beyond the upper range of HOF starting pitchers. Wells’s ERA was 4.13. However, 1. Wells pitched most of his career in the steroid era, so actually, in context his ERA was better. On the other hand, 1. Morris pitched a few more innings. They’re more or less even, IMHO. I wouldn’t vote for either. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot/607583/106 "2012-01-12T05:22:22Z")
[Here](http://blog.detroitathletic.com/2011/12/30/jack-morris-belongs-in-the-hall-of-fame/) is an article that tries to make a case for Morris. It brings up his innings pitched as a factor in his high era. > [@](#): > > During his 18-year career, Morris completed 175 games, which was 68 more than any other pitcher during that span. If you extend the time frame to ten years before Morris debuted until today, Morris’s 175 complete games are surpassed only by Bert Blyleven and Jim Palmer, both Hall of Famers. High ERA, you say? The more innings a pitcher tosses, the harder it is to keep the ERA down. ---
**Author:** ![mweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9c0ed/32.png) [@mweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mweb)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot/607583/107 "2012-01-12T06:55:23Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > How do their ERAs compare? I think the one thing that’s keeping Morris out of the HOF is his 3.90 ERA. It’s too far beyond the upper range of HOF starting pitchers. Well I don’t think either should make it. But Wells has an edge in ERA+ 108 to 104. WAR edge of 50.7 to 39.3. Better postseason numbers as well. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot/607583/108 "2012-01-12T07:02:38Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > [Here](http://blog.detroitathletic.com/2011/12/30/jack-morris-belongs-in-the-hall-of-fame/) is an article that tries to make a case for Morris. It brings up his innings pitched as a factor in his high era. Pretty sure this is backward. Have you ever heard of the “Verducci Effect”? It’s a relationship found by baseball writer Tom Verducci, wherein pitchers who exceed their previous high for IP by a certain number (30, I think?) tend to have much worse seasons the next year. Some have taken it as an indictment of overworking pitchers and as a reason to install rigorous pitch counts. But really, it’s just showing a simple relationship, that pitchers who are throwing well tend to accumulate more innings, because their manager doesn’t have to pull them from games when they’re getting shelled. Pitchers who throw more IP than ever before are probably pitching better than ever before, which means you would naturally expect a regression the next season. Edit: My point is that if you look at Morris’ BBRef page, you will see that some of his best years in terms of ERA+ also happen to be some of highest IP seasons. 1986 and 1987 were his 2nd and 3rd best years by ERA+ and also happen to be his 2nd and 3rd most IP. (OK, one season is 4th by 0.1 IP. Sue me.) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot/607583/109 "2012-01-12T13:37:04Z")
> [@The Other Jeffrey Lebowski's quote](#): > > Morris’s 175 complete games are surpassed only by Bert Blyleven and Jim Palmer, both Hall of Famers. High ERA, you say? The more innings a pitcher tosses, the harder it is to keep the ERA down. **IP, CG, ERA** Morris: 3824/175/3.90 Blyleven: 4970/242/3.31 Palmer: 3948/211/2.86 I don’t think that argument holds any water. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot/607583.md?page=5)