# 2012 NFL Pre-Draft Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 8, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215 "2012-02-08T18:05:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/361 "2012-03-13T21:02:19Z")
Did anyone watch Garcon much this past season? I always figured he was a mediocre at best player who was made into a household name solely on the back of Manning throwing balls to him. I didn’t see them much last season, was he worth a spit without Manning back there? All the talk of Garcon in the discussion of the top FA WRs made me scratch my head. Using him in the same sentance as Jackson, Colston, Wayne, Bowe and DeSean Jackson struck me as asinine. Yet, the Redskins just signed him to a sizable contract offer to be RG3’s prime target. Hmm. It’ll be interesting to see what the final numbers are relative to those other names. Also, lots of OTs have hit the market in the last couple hours. Giddy up! ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/362 "2012-03-13T21:24:55Z")
Marshall for two 3rds is a steal. He’s a top-level player and has only been held back by his mental problems, which he has apparently identified and been working on in the last year or so. And Cutler already knows him. I’m surprised the Dolphins were eager to unload him. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/363 "2012-03-13T21:33:28Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Marshall for two 3rds is a steal. He’s a top-level player and has only been held back by his mental problems, which he has apparently identified and been working on in the last year or so. And Cutler already knows him. I’m surprised the Dolphins were eager to unload him. Well, if news reports are to be believed Manning has misgivings about him. The Dolphins may see trading him as a boost to their chances to get Manning which would make sense. Plus, even if Marshall has his meds sorted out and his emotions under control he’s still burned a fair number of bridges and there’s some lingering resentment. That said, getting him for a 2012 3rd and a 2013 3rd is a steal. With all his issues he’s still managed to go for 1000 yards 5 years running and I suspect that Cutler won’t catch grief from him the way Henne did. Assuming his emotional stuff is managed it’s a homerun. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/364 "2012-03-13T21:47:34Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Well, they paid him a pretty big chunk of change… > He’s getting enough money that it could prohibit signing another top FA. > … $2.5 to $4 million is more than I would like, but doesn’t seem excessive. With $30 million in cap room and unlikely to go after the top $$$ free agents, it doesn’t prohibit anything. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/365 "2012-03-13T21:53:18Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Did anyone watch Garcon much this past season? I always figured he was a mediocre at best player who was made into a household name solely on the back of Manning throwing balls to him. I didn’t see them much last season, was he worth a spit without Manning back there? > > All the talk of Garcon in the discussion of the top FA WRs made me scratch my head. Using him in the same sentance as Jackson, Colston, Wayne, Bowe and DeSean Jackson struck me as asinine. Yet, the Redskins just signed him to a sizable contract offer to be RG3’s prime target. Hmm. It’ll be interesting to see what the final numbers are relative to those other names. > > Also, lots of OTs have hit the market in the last couple hours. Giddy up! I would suspicious of any of Manning’s wideouts, simply because I would have a hard time discerning if the receiver was good or if Manning made him look good. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/366 "2012-03-13T21:55:39Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > $2.5 to $4 million is more than I would like, but doesn’t seem excessive. With $30 million in cap room and unlikely to go after the top $$$ free agents, it doesn’t prohibit anything. I wasn’t implying that it was excessive, just that it’s not some throw away contract for the veteran minimum and it’s likely more than they’d pay if they thought he was going to be a bench/backup player. For that money they expect him to be a WR1/WR2 and it probably prohibits them from adding another elite WR, not so much due to the cap but due to the roster slots and positional budgeting. In more Bears news, reports are that the Bears are [close to a deal](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/bears-in-deep-negotiations-with-jason-campbell/) with Jason Campbell to be their backup QB. Having a solid backup is obviously a priority after last season. I still am leery of sinking a ton of money into a bench guy, but they have the cap space where it won’t prevent them from getting a OL and a LB in FA. It’s smart but somewhat unexciting, hopefully they’ll also keep McCown as their QB3. ---
**Author:** ![Ennui](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ennui/32/3396_2.png) [@Ennui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ennui)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/367 "2012-03-13T22:05:14Z")
The Browns Sign Alex Smith !!! No, not the 49’ers QB their own TE. This is vital to coach Shurmur’s offensive game plan, you see every now and again Pat likes to call a designed fullback run but sometimes forgets to make sure his full back is actually in the game at the time. When this happens we need a TE like Smith to run the ball for us, they like the flexibility he provides. And some people thought the Brown’s wouldn’t make any splashy moves. Feh. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/368 "2012-03-13T22:44:02Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Cutler and Marshall have a bromance going so I have no doubt this will be a good clubhouse move. I’m terrified that with Brandon Marshall in town Cutler will get back to his 2008 “Pro Bowl” season when he was the 16th rated QB in the NFL, just .6 points ahead of the great Trent Edwards and second in the NFL (just behind Brett Favre) in interceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/369 "2012-03-13T23:10:11Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > The Redskins are actually [one of the youngest teams in the league](http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/43768/2011-nfl-age-ranks-calling-all-graybeards). They have a few outliers in prominent positions (e.g. London Fletcher, 37) and special teams (Sav Rocca, 38), but their overall average age is very low. > > And again, they’ve got over $40 million in cap space and still have 6 picks this year and all of their 2-7 round picks the next 2 years. People are acting like they handed over _all_ of their picks for the next 3 years. The notion that it’s impossible to pick up good players in the draft without a 1st round pick is ludicrous. This has sorta flown under the radar in this thread, but the Redskins and Cowboys just got ratfucked by the NFL. As punishment for using the uncapped season as a contract dumping ground they will both be penalized by the league a combined $46M in cap space this year, space which will be gifted to 28 of the other teams. [The Cowboys/Redskins salary-cap mess, from square one](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/the-cowboysredskins-salary-cap-mess-from-square-one/). PFT does as good a job as can be done explaining how it happened, why it happened and who’s to blame. Granted he’s pretty one-sided and while he’s correct that what the NFL urged teams to do is collusion, the Cowboys and Redskins aren’t exactly innocent here since they basically got out of jail free for some silly spending ways prior to the lockout. You could argue that this is something that would have happened organically had these owners not voted to have a lockout in the first place. Long story short, the Redskins aren’t going to have that $40M in cap space this year, they’ll lose at least $18M of it this season and up to $18M again next year making it really tough to sign any front loaded FA contracts. This is also likely what led to the Cowboys cutting Terence Newman and might mean they lose some other FAs off their roster too. This is a complex story that I’m surprised has been so under reported thus far. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/370 "2012-03-14T00:24:18Z")
Garcon and Eddie Royal to the Skins. They can draft every position except LT from the second round onwards and be pretty good. I’m going to go against the grain and say the Skins aren’t doomed to being a bad franchise because of this trade - they’ll be an exciting team. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/371 "2012-03-14T00:35:44Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Garcon and Eddie Royal to the Skins. They can draft every position except LT from the second round onwards and be pretty good. I’m going to go against the grain and say the Skins aren’t doomed to being a bad franchise because of this trade - they’ll be an exciting team. You got a link? [Everything](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/redskins-josh-morgan-strike-a-deal/) I’ve seen has Josh Morgan going to the Skins. I know Royal was on their radar, but adding 3 new WRs for Griffin would be something else. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/372 "2012-03-14T00:36:45Z")
I didn’t check the legitimacy of the source, but [here](http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/24580/Report--Redskins-agree-to-terms-with-Eddie-Royal/Default.aspx). Edit: Ah, also [Washington Times.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/redskins-agree-to-terms-with-wr-eddie-royal/2012/03/13/gIQAVvtLAS_blog.html) ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/373 "2012-03-14T00:39:10Z")
The Bears have apparently moved on from Mario Williams, and are already targeting another DE in FA [Jeremy Mincey](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/bears-working-to-sign-free-agent-jeremy-mincey/) from Jacksonville. If this works out it’s be pretty exciting, I love the Williams fantasy and honestly I think he’d be an upgrade over Peppers should he become a cap casualty a year or two down the road but that’s a lot of money to tie up on the D Line. Offense wins these days, Mincey should be much more affordable. Also, [apparently Kellen Davis](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/source-kellen-davis-to-visit-cowboys-steelers-bengals/) will be making a tour of other teams around the league in need of a second TE. Hopefully the Bears, wanting him to be their starter, will end up being his preferred landing spot. I wrote a lot about liking him and he has a huge opportunity with Martz leaving and Tice taking over. The Bears running game could be downright scary with Davis and Marshall blocking downfield. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/374 "2012-03-14T00:43:44Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I didn’t check the legitimacy of the source, but [here](http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/24580/Report--Redskins-agree-to-terms-with-Eddie-Royal/Default.aspx). > > Edit: > Ah, also [Washington Times.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/redskins-agree-to-terms-with-wr-eddie-royal/2012/03/13/gIQAVvtLAS_blog.html) Interesting, that makes 3 new guys they brought in to catch balls. Not sure how they’ll pay them all and be able to get better anywhere else, but they certainly intend to give RG3 a leg up. I doubt the Browns would have done that much to help him succeed. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/375 "2012-03-14T00:46:47Z")
I would’ve. I’d have given Randy Moss the pep talk of his life to get him playing like it was 1999 and I’d have kidnapped Calvin Johnson’s family and threatened to blow up the entire city of Detroit unless they traded him. Then again, might’ve been for the best to just blow up Detroit, so maybe that plan would’ve backfired. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/376 "2012-03-14T01:13:46Z")
Adam Schefter is reporting that Vincent Jackson is going to the Bucs on a 5 year, $55.5 million dollar contract. Maybe he can revive Josh Freeman. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/377 "2012-03-14T01:21:39Z")
YESSSSS. I would rather have had Marshall (Bears are getting a steal) but Jackson is _exactly_ what the Buccaneers need. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/378 "2012-03-14T01:59:34Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > FA… where Steeler fans can take a nap until all the top tier FA’s are signed. Unless they sign their own, of course. > > Boy, would it be nice to see them land a Mario Williams-caliber player, but that just won’t happen in Pittsburgh. > > It’s hard to argue with thier philosophy, considering the success they have. But it is sure not exciting the fan base. Also, they’re salary cap fucked this year. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/379 "2012-03-14T02:16:36Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m terrified that with Brandon Marshall in town Cutler will get back to his 2008 “Pro Bowl” season when he was the 16th rated QB in the NFL, just .6 points ahead of the great Trent Edwards and second in the NFL (just behind Brett Favre) in interceptions. Don’t be a butthole. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/380 "2012-03-14T02:26:20Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Don’t be a butthole. Tough day? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215.md?page=20)