# 2012 NFL Pre-Draft Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 8, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215 "2012-02-08T18:05:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/21 "2012-02-09T22:43:07Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Hey, how is Matt Flynn any different from the flash-in-the-pan back-up from Philly that teams constantly over pay for? His passer rating this year is 43 points higher. Granted the sample size is a lot smaller, so there is more risk. But, to my mind, there is also more upside. Kolb started 7 games to Flynn’s two, so he has more experience. But Flynn, in his small sample size, has played very well, especially this year. I really like Flynn, and I do think he’ll be a success in the NFL, especially in an offense like the Packers. But he still will make dumb mistakes on occasion, and he is a far way away from proven. He could end up like Kolb and struggle, but still, Kolb was an average (17th rated) NFL QB, I think Flynn will be at least that, if not more. I think the biggest knocks on Flynn coming out of college was that he was inaccurate on deeper passes and may not have the arm strength to make all the NFL throws. I think he did a good job of answering those concerns in his games. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/22 "2012-02-09T22:43:55Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Zing! > > Hey, how is Matt Flynn any different from the flash-in-the-pan back-up from Philly that teams constantly over pay for? Are you referring to that can’t miss Vince young? Who won a nat. Champ. At Texas Vince Young? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/23 "2012-02-09T23:02:28Z")
I believe he’s referring to Kevin Kolb. (See also Matt Cassel.) ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/24 "2012-02-10T00:22:25Z")
Well, the way I look at it the Lions get an extra first and second round pick this year, since Leshoure and Fairly never got healthy enough to make a contribution. So add those guys and a first or second round CB or OL who isn’t a total bust, to what they had last year, things might be impressive. There is of course the Megatron Situation. His cap number is set to blow out any potential to retain much of anybody else as it stands, but I have to assume things will be reworked to merely excruciating for a long time, instead of catastrophic for next year. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/25 "2012-02-10T01:33:58Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > I believe he’s referring to Kevin Kolb. (See also Matt Cassel.) And A.J. Feely (twice!) and possibly one of the Detmers. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/26 "2012-02-10T18:38:00Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Are you referring to that can’t miss Vince young? Who won a nat. Champ. At Texas Vince Young? That’s like pointing to somebody’s Pop Warner stats. That has nothing to do with now. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/27 "2012-02-10T18:40:46Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Well, the way I look at it the Lions get an extra first and second round pick this year, since Leshoure and Fairly never got healthy enough to make a contribution. So add those guys and a first or second round CB or OL who isn’t a total bust, to what they had last year, things might be impressive. > > There is of course the Megatron Situation. His cap number is set to blow out any potential to retain much of anybody else as it stands, but I have to assume things will be reworked to merely excruciating for a long time, instead of catastrophic for next year. Totally agreed. I think the Lions need to pick up another running back, but they can wait for the third to do so. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/28 "2012-02-10T19:03:51Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > That’s like pointing to somebody’s Pop Warner stats. That has nothing to do with now. Yeah. You know who also won a nat. Champ.? Ken Dorsey. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/29 "2012-02-10T19:05:42Z")
The Lions will very likely lose Avril, which will offset any gains from Fairley. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/30 "2012-02-10T19:51:04Z")
I’m also a Browns fan and I like Colt McCoy a lot…as a backup QB. He just doesn’t have the arm or the accuracy to start. Yes, he lacks weapons. Yes, he showed great leadership. Yes, he can scramble. He just doesn’t make the throws when he needs to. He is not a franchise QB and the fans and the team know it. There is talk of the 'Skins jumping the Browns to grab RGIII. On one hand, I wouldn’t mind the Browns trading both their 1st round picks to get up to #2, but on the other hand, they need more than just QB. It’s too bad things so gloriously fell apart between Peyton Manning and the Colts because I would have loved it if the Browns could have put together a stellar package for Luck. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/31 "2012-02-10T20:00:58Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > And A.J. Feely (twice!) and possibly one of the Detmers. Or perhaps even both Detmers, as they were a combined 12-14 as starters for the Eagles (Ty 9-9, Koy 3-5). ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/32 "2012-02-10T23:26:56Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > I believe he’s referring to Kevin Kolb. (See also Matt Cassel.) > [@kidchameleon](#): > > And A.J. Feely (twice!) and possibly one of the Detmers. > [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > That’s like pointing to somebody’s Pop Warner stats. That has nothing to do with now. I really wasn’t doing that. I just misinterpreted something. Please see the two responses I’ve included and ignore mine. But dont get me startrd on the correlation between pop Warner performance as a barometer on how the kid might do in the pros. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/33 "2012-02-11T00:02:34Z")
For my fellow NFC Northers [this post](http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4675156/tentative-nfc-north-salary-cap-status) on ESPN’s blog was interesting regarding the team’s respective salary cap situations. > [@](#): > > The following is how much each team currently has committed to its 2012 cap. Keep in mind that the numbers probably will change between now and March 13 as teams re-sign, re-negotiate and release players from their rosters. > Chicago Bears: $101.8 million > Detroit Lions: $122.8 million > Green Bay Packers: $115.3 million > Minnesota Vikings: $115.3 million With the cap expected to be between $125M and $120M this bodes well for the Bears. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/34 "2012-02-11T01:30:31Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > For my fellow NFC Northers [this post](http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4675156/tentative-nfc-north-salary-cap-status) on ESPN’s blog was interesting regarding the team’s respective salary cap situations. It seems the Packers won’t be even close to being able to franchise Flynn in the hopes of getting some value in trade, which is a shame. Although they may have some flexibility with restructuring, or even cutting some aging vets like Chad Clifton and Donald Driver. They’re still a bit close though. [Quote=Omni] With the cap expected to be between $125M and $120M this bodes well for the Bears. [/QUOTE] As the article pointed out, the trade of those first rounders for Cutler saved them some cap room. Forte and a big name WR free agent (Colston? Manningham?) May eat some of it, but it should be fun to see who gets the big paydays in Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/35 "2012-02-11T03:36:39Z")
Regarding McCoy. It’s clear that he’s never going to be very good. Given more time he might turn into okay, but you don’t settle for okay at QB unless you have to. However, about 30-40% of Browns fans will support him blindly. He’s a likable guy, and more than that, they’ll support any QB blindly. It’s some sort of weird stockholm syndrome or something where if you’ve gone long enough without having a QB you start to accept that’s just how it’s going to be. So they don’t actually want a good QB - they want to Dilfer it. They want to intentionally keep a mediocre QB and get hall of fame talent around him to drag him kicking and screaming into wins. We went through the same shit with Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn (oddly not Derek Anderson, they wanted to throw him out very quickly… but I think this was because we had The Golden Boy Quinn just waiting to take us to the promise land). These people are mostly convinced that QB isn’t that important and that QB skill isn’t really an inherent trait to the QB, but just a product of his surrounding environment. Not that the surrounding environment is a factor, but that it’s the only factor - that if you put McCoy in Green Bay, he’d have had the best season ever, and Rodgers in Cleveland would’ve thrown for 2500 yards. Their defenses are never about McCoy, or any other QB. They don’t say “he does this well, so maybe we can work on the rest”, they just give the same sort of excuses that you could give if you pulled a 45 year old guy off the street to be your QB. His WRs suck, the line can’t block, no one could succeed with this supporting cast, blah blah. The people who don’t chronically rush to defend every QB almost like an abused wife sticking up for her husband of course realize that McCoy just isn’t getting it done. He’s supposed to be one of those guys that doesn’t have the great arm but he can be accurate and quick and competant. But he’s not. I can see why you’d play a guy that has all the physical attributes but needs development. I can also see why you’d get a guy that has a low ceiling but he gets rid of the ball quickly, makes few mistakes, and is accurate. What I can’t see is why you’d hold onto a guy that’s got a noodle arm, bad mechanics, slow reads, no pocket presence, etc. If the Browns don’t acquire RG3 this year I will **FLIP MY SHIT AND BURN DOWN EVERYTING**. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/36 "2012-02-15T22:05:52Z")
The Bears will also be rolling over something like $7M from last season into this year’s cap. That money should easily cover what Forte will get and might even allow them to front load his deal a bit to insulate against the wheels coming off in 3 years. As for their Free Agent targets. I’m pretty much locked in on Robert Meachem as the big offensive addition, he should come at just the right price with just the right amount of upside. A more aggressive approach would be to grab Bowe and with Emery in town you’d think he’d have more knowledge of what he’s worth and what the Chiefs will be willing to pay to keep him, that said I’m betting he gets franchised and it’s all moot. There’s a pretty vocal majority who are clamoring for Cliff Avril on the defensive side. He’d be a terrific addition but I just think he’ll be too expensive. If I were to go all mad scientist on you I’d propose the Bears cut Peppers and use his money to sign Mario Williams for the same price and add Avril too, never happen but I think it’d be really interesting. Personally, I’m a little more interested in passing on Avril in favor of grabbing a top notch CB. Tyvon Branch is a pretty trendy choice at SS to line up opposite Conte too. We’ll see, but the Bears at least will be able to add more players than they lose, that said there’s definitely some fat to be trimmed from the roster. In the draft I’m going Michael Floyd or bust, at least until Kendall Wright blows him away at the Combine. I’d be very excited about a WR corps of Floyd, Meachem, Knox, Hester and Bennett. If anyone is interested, Mel Kiper just trotted out his [Mock Draft 2.0](http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7575960/mel-kiper-second-mock-draft-year) today for ESPN Insiders. As always I’ll post snippets for any team who is requested. For starters: > [@Mel Kiper](#): > > **4. Cleveland Browns** Record: 4-12 > \*\*\* Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor\*\* > Given the makeup of the roster, and the fact that they have two first-round picks and can really enhance the level of young talent, I think the Browns are far more likely to look at a young QB prospect than get into the bidding war for a veteran like Manning, or even Matt Flynn. One question I have is whether Cleveland stays at this spot and hopes Griffin is still around, or gets aggressive and moves up to No. 2 and guarantees they get their guy. Given his experience, leadership qualities and overall skill set, I don’t see it as much of a leap for Griffin to be a Week 1 starter in 2012. > > **19. Chicago Bears** Record: 8-8 > **Mike Adams, OT, Ohio St.** > We know the Bears will be looking for help at wide receiver, but just because the offensive line could be characterized as semi-adequate doesn’t mean they should make the mistake of neglecting it and letting it fall apart again. Mike Tice knows as well as anybody that Jay Cutler can be successful in the passing game first if he’s not getting hit on every play. Adams is a guy who I’ve come around on, because he simply knows how to protect the pocket. He can slide his feet and doesn’t get beat inside, but he has the length and technique to protect the edge. > > **28. Green Bay Packers** Record: 15-1 > **Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame** > The Packers are another team that should be looking for the best value possible at either safety or cornerback, and Smith provides value here. What I like about Smith is his ability to do it all. He’s not the world’s greatest athlete, but any scout will tell you: At this position, you take the instincts over the athlete 100 out of 100 times. Smith gets great jumps in coverage and will get in passing lanes, but he’s also outstanding in run support. You don’t lose ground in one area when he’s out there. Personally, if the Bears draft Adams there I’ll be furious. Adams is a puff ball and isn’t nearly good enough to justify that pick. The OT position is painfully thin this year so he’ll probably go at around this point, but OT would be a much better spot for the Bears to spend some FA money after cutting Chris Williams and Frank Omiyale. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/37 "2012-02-15T22:09:36Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The Bears will also be rolling over something like $7M from last season into this year’s cap. The cap numbers are all over the place on the web. I’ve seen the Cowboys at the cap or $20M below it. I just heard the Bucs had $60M to spend, yikes! ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/38 "2012-02-16T01:14:10Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > If anyone is interested, Mel Kiper just trotted out his [Mock Draft 2.0](http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7575960/mel-kiper-second-mock-draft-year) today for ESPN Insiders. As always I’ll post snippets for any team who is requested. Im interested in the Steelers mock, when you have a chance. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/39 "2012-02-16T01:40:47Z")
Hmmm, He has Janoris Jenkins, for the Lions now. Like the position 🙂 , like the talent, but, Is he a head case? And do the Lions need to take that risk? I guess in a meta-analysis sense I wouldn’t like the pick much. If he is a kid who made a stupid mistake, then someone will figure it out and he won’t be there. And if he is still there then he really is a discipline risk and the Lions are the last team that needs that right now. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/40 "2012-02-16T05:23:02Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Im interested in the Steelers mock, when you have a chance. > > Thanks Ditto for the Texans. Thanks. In the dark, I am predicting…hmmm…he probably thinks they’ll avoid Floyd for character reasons, no way Wright makes it down that far: how about Dontari Poe (NT) or Peter Konz (C)? A little early for Sanu, and I’m not sold on Jeffery’s speed, but our local Texans’ guy seems to think highly of Rueben Randle, (WR) LSU. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215.md?page=3)