# 2012 NFL Pre-Draft Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 8, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215 "2012-02-08T18:05:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/581 "2012-03-21T17:14:25Z")
Williams getting indefinite suspension doesn’t surprise me, but Payton getting suspended for a whole year does. Now in the NFL how exactly does a head-coach suspension work? Is he banned from all Saints’ activities or even from setting foot in their practice facilities or the Superdome? It’s an open secret that in MLB suspended managers simply continue managing from the clubhouse, but how does it work in football? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/582 "2012-03-21T17:15:14Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Williams getting indefinite suspension doesn’t surprise me, but Payton getting suspended for a whole year does. > > Now in the NFL how exactly does a head-coach suspension work? Is he banned from all Saints’ activities or even from setting foot in their practice facilities or the Superdome? It’s an open secret that in MLB suspended managers simply continue managing from the clubhouse, but how does it work in football? and how do you keep a GM from working behind the scenes? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/583 "2012-03-21T17:22:20Z")
You have to wonder if the Saints organization will make any changes. They won’t have a head coach for a year, won’t have a GM for half a season and won’t have a assistant HC/Linebackers coach for 6 games. They currently don’t have their star QB under contract beyond this year either. Gonna be tough for Loomis to negotiate that deal when he’s suspended, but the “8 games” isn’t very detailed about what that means for this offseason. Presumably he’ll be able to work up until after final rosters are established prior to week 1. Perhaps worse is the leadership vacuum this will leave. No Payton so no HC or OC. No Vitt, so no assistant HC. The DC was let go and is now also suspended from the Rams staff. Who the heck would be next in line for them? The new DC Spagnuolo would probably be the logical choice but he’s brand new, though at least he has HC experience. Wonder if Boogie Benson will consider letting Payton go and giving the job to him permanently. In any case I think he’s in line for a big raise. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/584 "2012-03-21T17:25:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That. NFL personnel types value draft picks _far_ too highly, for the most part. Sure, there are your Redskins and Cowboys who trade them all away for shitty players, but most GMs are happy to make deals like the Brandon Marshall trade. The Dolphins got two third round picks, and statistically we can be almost sure that one will never see the field and the other won’t be as good as Marshall. > > A bunch of wideouts were taken in the first round of the 2009 draft (the same draft Wallace was in). He’s significantly better than Darrius Heyward-Bey, Michael Crabtree (for now) and Percy Harvin. He’s at least as good as Jeremy Maclin and Kenny Britt. Hakeem Nicks is the only first rounder from that draft I’d rather have, and even his production doesn’t come close to Wallace’s if you look at their careers as a whole. > > The point is that Wallace is a player who would be worth a first rounder three years ago; surely he’s worth one _now_. You have to look at salary numbers. I can’t find the exact numbers, but you figure Wallace is going to make anywhere between 2-5 times as much as a late 1st. Is he going to be 2-5 times better over the next 4 years than whoever you pick? Maybe, but I’d have to think the odds are against it. With Manning as the QB you don’t need someone who can beat double teams or can consistently work himself open. Manning will find the open guy. You just need solid options around him, which the Broncos probably have. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/585 "2012-03-21T17:25:55Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Williams getting indefinite suspension doesn’t surprise me, but Payton getting suspended for a whole year does. > > Now in the NFL how exactly does a head-coach suspension work? Is he banned from all Saints’ activities or even from setting foot in their practice facilities or the Superdome? It’s an open secret that in MLB suspended managers simply continue managing from the clubhouse, but how does it work in football? > [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > and how do you keep a GM from working behind the scenes? Usually in the NFL it means banned form team facilities completely. For a Coach that’s a deal breaker. Whether he’s banned now or starting in Week 1 will be a big question. For a GM that’s probably also a deal breaker since he needs to be there to consult with the HC and training staff and discuss moves with the owner, but with the internet it might become somewhat manageable. If I’m the Saints I’d be really, really leery about skirting the rules on this stuff though after this punishment. Just think how bad it’ll get if Goodell finds out Loomis or Payton violate the punishment. If there’s a NFL death penalty, we’d be liable to learn what that might look like. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/586 "2012-03-21T17:29:32Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I don’t know what to talk about first. The Tebow thing is completely bizarre. First, the Jags are stupid for not getting him first. The ticket sales alone justify the move and who knows, it might have worked out. Gabbert certainly isn’t ready to be a starter. I understand Miami backing off of it, somewhat anyways. The Jets are truly baffling though, they just gave Sanchez a bizarrely guaranteed contract for the next 2 seasons and now they go out and get Tebow. They certainly don’t need any more attention, but this is the headline grabbing move that suits that organization ego I suppose. Ryan might be the worst possible coach for him and I don’t see Tebow liking the scrutiny in New York, but his agent and his publicist (not to mention his wing nut political friends) will be over the moon and busy as hell. Move over Jeter and Linsanity. Tebow has uses on the goal line and other similar situations. Besides, they have Drew Stanton and McElroy as their backup QBs. If Sanchez goes down or sucks, Tebow gives them a better chance to win than those guys. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/587 "2012-03-21T17:44:35Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > If I’m the Saints I’d be really, really leery about skirting the rules on this stuff though after this punishment. Just think how bad it’ll get if Goodell finds out Loomis or Payton violate the punishment. If there’s a NFL death penalty, we’d be liable to learn what that might look like. Good point. Goodell certainly realizes that if Loomis or Payton flouted the suspension and got away with it, every future suspension of a GM or head coach is meaningless. You almost want them to do it just so you can see how far Goodell will go… ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/588 "2012-03-21T18:12:19Z")
Damn, Payton is my favorite coach. Back to a league of gutless coward HCs aside from Belichick. Will be a less interesting year. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/589 "2012-03-21T20:28:02Z")
Brees isn’t signed yet, is he? Any chance he jumps ship because the Saints are going to have a troubled year? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/590 "2012-03-21T20:41:00Z")
No, Brees has not signed a contract. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/591 "2012-03-21T21:01:07Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The Jets are truly baffling though, they just gave Sanchez a bizarrely guaranteed contract for the next 2 seasons and now they go out and get Tebow. They certainly don’t need any more attention, but this is the headline grabbing move that suits that organization ego I suppose. My initial reaction to hearing the Tebow news was that the Jets must be really butthurt that the Giants won the Superbowl and felt they needed to make a splash to win back the newspaper coverage. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/592 "2012-03-21T21:09:59Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Brees isn’t signed yet, is he? Any chance he jumps ship because the Saints are going to have a troubled year? It will be tough with him under the Franchise tag. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/593 "2012-03-21T21:14:52Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > My initial reaction to hearing the Tebow news was that the Jets must be really butthurt that the Giants won the Superbowl and felt they needed to make a splash to win back the newspaper coverage. That sounds like the Jets alright. Rex Ryan generates a ton of copy but it’s slowly dawning on people that his record isn’t all that great. The problem with the trade, according to ESPN, is that the Jets want the Broncos to pay the remainder of Tebow’s salary advance ($5 million) and the Broncos want the Jets to pay at least some of that amount. The full trade, if it happens, is Tebow and a seventh-round pick to the Jets and a fourth- and sixth-round pick to Denver. There is some talk that Tebow could be traded to the Rams if things fall apart with the Jets. I don’t know what’s more surprising: that the Jets might do this, or that the same contract issue was too much for Jacksonville to swallow. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/594 "2012-03-21T23:41:35Z")
Law Firm (BJG Ellis) to the Bengals? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/595 "2012-03-22T00:03:25Z")
As a Bucs fan, I’m quite excited about this Saints kerfuffle. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/596 "2012-03-22T13:31:40Z")
Times like these (Tebow to Jets) are what make me glad that I root for a legitimate NFL franchise. My Giants fandom goes a long way towards making up for my Mets fandom. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/597 "2012-03-22T13:35:48Z")
The shame about the whole bounty thing is the Payton and Williams are good enough coaches and the Saints were a good enough team that they really did not need this bounty system to win. Now, the entire legacy for all of them will begin and end with this, even overshadowing the comeback from Katrina and the SB win. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/598 "2012-03-22T14:00:20Z")
All of who? Williams wasn’t with the franchise during the Super Bowl season. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/599 "2012-03-22T15:25:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > All of who? Williams wasn’t with the franchise during the Super Bowl season. Um, they hired him the January before their SB year. [http://blog.nola.com/saintsbeat/2009/01/gregg\_williams\_hired\_as\_new\_or\_1.html](http://blog.nola.com/saintsbeat/2009/01/gregg_williams_hired_as_new_or_1.html) [http://www.neworleanssaints.com/team/coaches/gregg-williams/5d6c0fc5-98da-4431-8490-4f1566a24b2a](http://www.neworleanssaints.com/team/coaches/gregg-williams/5d6c0fc5-98da-4431-8490-4f1566a24b2a) ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/600 "2012-03-22T15:38:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yeah, he’s restricted, but why the hell _wouldn’t_ you give up a first round pick for a player not yet in his prime who has already proven to have first round value? The odds say that you are not going to draft a better wideout unless you pick in the top five, and even then it’s a crapshoot. > > In particular, the Pats have two picks at the end of the first round. Imagine how hard that passing offense would be to stop with Welker (2011: 1,569 yards, 9 TDs), Wallace (1,193/8) and Brandon Lloyd (966/5 despite a midseason trade)… _and_ Gronkowski and Hernandez. > > The Broncos also pick at the tail end of the first round, need a #1 wideout, and have cap room to spare. The Titans are in the middle of the round and have a huge question mark in Kenny Britt. I think we may have some idea of why news is so quiet with Mike Wallace. According to PFT [Mike Wallace told 49ers he wants more than Larry Fitzgerald](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/report-mike-wallace-told-49ers-he-wants-more-than-larry-fitzgerald/). I love Wallace but he’s not in the same ballpark as Fitzy. Is he definitely better than Marshall, Bowe, V-Jax, Welker, White or Austin? I’m not sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215.md?page=31)