# 2012 NFL Pre-Draft Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 8, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215 "2012-02-08T18:05:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/601 "2012-03-22T15:46:52Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I think we may have some idea of why news is so quiet with Mike Wallace. According to PFT [Mike Wallace told 49ers he wants more than Larry Fitzgerald](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/report-mike-wallace-told-49ers-he-wants-more-than-larry-fitzgerald/). I love Wallace but he’s not in the same ballpark as Fitzy. Is he definitely better than Marshall, Bowe, V-Jax, Welker, White or Austin? I’m not sure. Amusing. Fitzgerald is the face of his franchise and has put up huge numbers with bad QBs throwing him the ball. I think it’s safe to say he has earned his contract. Wallace, on the other hand, good receiver but how much of it is playing with a competent QB? And how much would the presence of Mike Wallace earn back in jersey sales, etc? Seems like a fantastic request from Wallace (i.e. it is fantasy that someone would pay him that much with his current body of work behind him). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/602 "2012-03-22T15:56:07Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > Um, they hired him the January before their SB year. > [http://blog.nola.com/saintsbeat/2009/01/gregg\_williams\_hired\_as\_new\_or\_1.html](http://blog.nola.com/saintsbeat/2009/01/gregg_williams_hired_as_new_or_1.html) > [http://www.neworleanssaints.com/team/coaches/gregg-williams/5d6c0fc5-98da-4431-8490-4f1566a24b2a](http://www.neworleanssaints.com/team/coaches/gregg-williams/5d6c0fc5-98da-4431-8490-4f1566a24b2a) _Mea culpa._ > [@Omniscient](#): > > I think we may have some idea of why news is so quiet with Mike Wallace. According to PFT [Mike Wallace told 49ers he wants more than Larry Fitzgerald](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/report-mike-wallace-told-49ers-he-wants-more-than-larry-fitzgerald/). I love Wallace but he’s not in the same ballpark as Fitzy. Is he definitely better than Marshall, Bowe, V-Jax, Welker, White or Austin? I’m not sure. I’m sure he’s not definitely better than any of those players. ---
**Author:** ![Ennui](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ennui/32/3396_2.png) [@Ennui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ennui)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/603 "2012-03-22T16:01:36Z")
No link but a report over the radio has Michael Bush going to the Bears, 4 years 14 million, 7 guarantied. I’m sure glad the Brown’s aren’t putting themselves in cap hell signing overpriced veteran talent. And it’s not like we need to replace Peyton Hillis or anything. [Needs some sort of choking on my own vomit smiley] ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/604 "2012-03-22T16:05:09Z")
> [@Ennui](#): > > No link but a report over the radio has Michael Bush going to the Bears, 4 years 14 million, 7 guarantied. I’m sure glad the Brown’s aren’t putting themselves in cap hell signing overpriced veteran talent. And it’s not like we need to replace Peyton Hillis or anything. > > [Needs some sort of choking on my own vomit smiley] [Fuck Yeah!](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/bears-sign-michael-bush/) Thrilled about this. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/605 "2012-03-22T16:07:31Z")
What the fuck? Tolbert for 2.5m/year, Michael Bush for $ 3.5m/year, and the Browns have fucking Chris Ogbanayayayaya as their #1 back? What the fuck is up with the RB market? Garcon can get $42m, but Michael Bush gets $14m? I guess this means the Browns are drafting Trent Richardson because what the fuck else are they going to do? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/606 "2012-03-22T16:13:10Z")
Even if the Browns are drafting Richardson, how the fuck do you not offer 3m/year for Tolbert as your backup or 4m for Bush? Of course this isn’t just the Browns - the rest of the league let that happen too. I just have a hard time believing these players aren’t worth shit on the open market. Does anyone know what the deal is there? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/607 "2012-03-22T16:26:43Z")
I find it hard to believe nobody wanted Bush as a starter. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/608 "2012-03-22T16:28:19Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > What the fuck? Tolbert for 2.5m/year, Michael Bush for $ 3.5m/year, and the Browns have fucking Chris Ogbanayayayaya as their #1 back? What the fuck is up with the RB market? Garcon can get $42m, but Michael Bush gets $14m? > > I guess this means the Browns are drafting Trent Richardson because what the fuck else are they going to do? > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Even if the Browns are drafting Richardson, how the fuck do you not offer 3m/year for Tolbert as your backup or 4m for Bush? Of course this isn’t just the Browns - the rest of the league let that happen too. I just have a hard time believing these players aren’t worth shit on the open market. Does anyone know what the deal is there? It’s a fucking mystery to me too. I know that RBs have been a difficult position to evaluate and they are potentially the most commoditized position on the field, but these prices are insanely cheap. I feel like last year’s AP, DeAngelo and CJ2K deals constituted a speculative bubble and that sucker has flat out burst. It will be extremely interesting to see what this does to Matt Forte’s value. Are the Bears going to extend him like everyone under the sun expects, or will they play hardball with him now and force him to play out the year under the franchise tag? Will Forte adjust his expectations and stop asking for $50M and settle for a more sane Jamal Charles sized deal at $30M+ and $15 guaranteed. As for the Browns, this either makes drafting Richardson an automatic or it means that the RB position is devalued to the point that Richardson will slip into the teens in the coming draft. The Browns should probably be considering calling the Jaguars and seeing what the going rate for Stewart is. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/609 "2012-03-22T16:46:28Z")
Jaguars? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/610 "2012-03-22T16:55:30Z")
Ronde Barber re-upped for another season with the Buccaneers. He’s made 199 straight starts; that’s more than any defensive back in history. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/611 "2012-03-22T17:36:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Ronde Barber re-upped for another season with the Buccaneers. He’s made 199 straight starts; that’s more than any defensive back in history. Wow, even more than Darrell Green? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/612 "2012-03-22T17:45:05Z")
Darrell Green appeared in 295 games, 11th most, but they were not consecutive. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/613 "2012-03-22T17:58:31Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Even if the Browns are drafting Richardson, how the fuck do you not offer 3m/year for Tolbert as your backup or 4m for Bush? Of course this isn’t just the Browns - the rest of the league let that happen too. I just have a hard time believing these players aren’t worth shit on the open market. Does anyone know what the deal is there? Overcompensation for the meme that “RB’s are fungible” is my guess. I’m sure the Texans would happily send the Browns Ben Tate for the 2nd 1’st rounder y’all have. He’s on the books for 500k this year and around 600 next year. I was wondering how they were able to get Arian Foster for so ‘cheap’ in light of the CJ and AP deals, and I guess this year’s market is why. I like Mike Wallace a great deal, but that Fitzthulu deal was silly. (\>$20M cap number for 2012?!) As was the Megatron deal. (At least for 2014 and later). Wallace might get something like that when the cap gets raised in 2014, but I’d be very surprised if someone paid that now, plus the 1st rounder they’d have to ship to Pittsburgh. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/614 "2012-03-22T17:59:37Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I just have a hard time believing these players aren’t worth shit on the open market. Does anyone know what the deal is there? It could just be an unusual confluence of circumstances (e.g., teams that need RBs don’t have much cap space, or don’t like the available FAs, or this year’s FAs are more highly regarded in the public’s consciousness than in NFL front offices). My guess, though, is that it’s just a correction in the RB market. Teams might feel (perhaps correctly) that, if a RB isn’t one of the best in the league – Top 10? – it’s impossible for him to create a lot of marginal value. This isn’t just because the RB position is so fungible, which has been true for years, but also because almost everyone now is in a pass-first offense. Eh, on second thought, I shouldn’t sell short the idea that this is just a really [unimpressive RB free agency class](http://www.footballsfuture.com/2012/fa/rb.html). Tolbert and Bush have figured prominently in recent fantasy football seasons, but IRL, if you take a step back, their career trajectories look really [boring](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TolbMi00.htm) and [ordinary](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BushMi00.htm). (Bush’s 2011 almost looks cool given those receiving yards, but then look at that un-sexy 3.8 YPC average when McFadden put up a 5.4 on the same offense.) Really, look at those free agents. Other than \*maybe \*Peyton Hillis, is there anyone on that list that you would give two fucks about if it weren’t for fantasy football? ---
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/615 "2012-03-22T18:04:17Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I like Mike Wallace a great deal, but that Fitzthulu deal was silly. (\>$20M cap number for 2012?!) As was the Megatron deal. (At least for 2014 and later). Wallace might get something like that when the cap gets raised in 2014, but I’d be very surprised if someone paid that now, plus the 1st rounder they’d have to ship to Pittsburgh. Fitzgerald’s cap number for 2012 is supposedly $14.5m - though that is according to the team’s site itself. [http://blog.azcardinals.com/2012/02/07/putting-a-cap-on-it/](http://blog.azcardinals.com/2012/02/07/putting-a-cap-on-it/) Maybe you have better info. $14.5m is still a lot of money, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/616 "2012-03-22T18:43:49Z")
Forte tweet: “There’s only so many times a man that has done everything he’s been asked to do can be disrespected! Guess the GOOD GUYS do finish last…” Indeed, playing professional football and getting 40 million dollars instead of 50 would definitely put you in “good guys finish last” territory in life. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/617 "2012-03-22T18:49:22Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Forte tweet: > > “There’s only so many times a man that has done everything he’s been asked to do can be disrespected! Guess the GOOD GUYS do finish last…” > > Indeed, playing professional football and getting 40 million dollars instead of 50 would definitely put you in “good guys finish last” territory in life. Considering he played every offensive down last year, I think it is quite a slap in the face that the Bears signed Bush. What would they need another running back for? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/618 "2012-03-22T18:53:15Z")
> [@Cumbrian](#): > > Fitzgerald’s cap number for 2012 is supposedly $14.5m - though that is according to the team’s site itself. [http://blog.azcardinals.com/2012/02/07/putting-a-cap-on-it/](http://blog.azcardinals.com/2012/02/07/putting-a-cap-on-it/) Maybe you have better info. > > $14.5m is still a lot of money, obviously. I was basing it off [this link](http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/larry-fitzgerald/), which after being burned on several Texans’ players, I think deserves inclusion within Twain’s observation about lies and damned lies. There’s no reason why the NFL can’t make this stuff public, or at least, a lot more public than they do. It might help fans realize why a GM does “X” or cuts player “Y”. Then again, IIRC, they haven’t seen fit to make the rule book public, so I’m probably shouting into the wind on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/619 "2012-03-22T18:54:38Z")
We haven’t had a Mock Draft to poke fun at in a while, here’s one from PFT. > **[2012 mock draft, take one](https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/2012-mock-draft-take-one)** > > 1. The head scratcher starts right at the top. > [@](#): > > 1. Colts: Robert Griffin III, quarterback, Baylor. > > In an upset, the Colts opt for the most gifted quarterback in the draft. > > 1. Redskins: Andrew Luck, quarterback, Stanford. > > Mike Shanahan settles for a still-elite prospect at the game’s premier position. Um…okay. I guess if you’re trying to generate page views that would do it. > [@](#): > > 1. Jets: Michael Floyd, receiver, Notre Dame. > > Floyd improves the Jets’ odds of making good on their QB investments. > > 1. Bengals: Kendall Wright, receiver, Baylor. > > Wright is the best player left, giving Cincy a dynamic bookend for A.J. Green. I can buy this, but I’m not sure I saw the Jets as having WR as this big a need, ditto the Bengals. > [@](#): > > 1. Bears: Nick Perry, defensive end, USC. > > Defensive coordinator Rod Marinelli will love Perry’s burst off the edge. That’s a new one on me, and probably pretty defensible after the Marshall trade. However this is the guy I’d rather they picked here in this mock… > [@](#): > > 1. Giants: Luke Kuechly, linebacker, Boston College. > > Inside linebackers aren’t drafted early, but Kuechly fills a big need in New York. No way he lasts this long, but there’s an outside chance he lasts until 19. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/620 "2012-03-22T18:55:39Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Considering he played every offensive down last year, I think it is quite a slap in the face that the Bears signed Bush. What would they need another running back for? Um, for the same reason they needed Marion Barber last year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215.md?page=32)