# 2012 NFL Pre-Draft Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 8, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215 "2012-02-08T18:05:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/621 "2012-03-22T19:00:31Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I was basing it off [this link](http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/larry-fitzgerald/), which after being burned on several Texans’ players, I think deserves inclusion within Twain’s observation about lies and damned lies. > > There’s no reason why the NFL can’t make this stuff public, or at least, a lot more public than they do. It might help fans realize why a GM does “X” or cuts player “Y”. Then again, IIRC, they haven’t seen fit to make the rule book public, so I’m probably shouting into the wind on this one. Agreed, a bit of transparency would be helpful. I’ve seen competing numbers on the Cardinals cap obligations that make it look like they can’t sign any draft pick that they take without going over the cap and others that make it look like they’ve restructured adequately enough to have taken that run at Manning. And none of it seems to be based on anything other than guesswork. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/622 "2012-03-22T19:25:48Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > We haven’t had a Mock Draft to poke fun at in a while, here’s one from PFT. > > [2012 mock draft, take one - NBC Sports](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/2012-mock-draft-take-one/) > > The head scratcher starts right at the top. Seriously doubt that Hightower gets past either the Steelers or the Texans, or falls out of the first round for that matter. Flipping 1 and 2 is pretty much a cue that we shouldn’t take anything they have to say seriously. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/623 "2012-03-22T19:42:25Z")
Colts HC Chuck Pagano and GM Ryan Grigson [are not in attendance at Andrew Luck’s pro day](http://www.indystar.com/article/20120322/SPORTS03/120322029/Andrew-Luck-Pro-Day-Colts-GM-Grigson-coach-Pagano-not-QB-s-workout), instead heading home after RG3’s workout yesterday and sending QB coach Clyde Christensen and a scout to Stanford today. Dan Snyder and Mike Shanahan are both there. This, to me, solidifies that the Colts made their decision months ago and don’t even consider it necessary to bother seeing Luck work out. I can’t imagine there’s any chance they pass on Luck, and if they were really considering switching to RG3, they would definitely be in Stanford in force to make sure they got a good, hard look at both players. The Redskins are surely there just to see the sights like everyone else, due diligence and all. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/624 "2012-03-22T19:50:10Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Colts HC Chuck Pagano and GM Ryan Grigson [are not in attendance at Andrew Luck’s pro day](http://www.indystar.com/article/20120322/SPORTS03/120322029/Andrew-Luck-Pro-Day-Colts-GM-Grigson-coach-Pagano-not-QB-s-workout), instead heading home after RG3’s workout yesterday and sending QB coach Clyde Christensen and a scout to Stanford today. Dan Snyder and Mike Shanahan are both there. > > This, to me, solidifies that the Colts made their decision months ago and don’t even consider it necessary to bother seeing Luck work out. I can’t imagine there’s any chance they pass on Luck, and if they were really considering switching to RG3, they would definitely be in Stanford in force to make sure they got a good, hard look at both players. > > The Redskins are surely there just to see the sights like everyone else, due diligence and all. What this means in that the Colts brass was on hand to scout Kendall Wright on the chance he falls to #33 or they are looking to trade up for him. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/625 "2012-03-22T21:04:51Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > We haven’t had a Mock Draft to poke fun at in a while, here’s one from PFT. > > [2012 mock draft, take one - NBC Sports](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/2012-mock-draft-take-one/) I think the Panthers would be thrilled to get Coples at 9. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/626 "2012-03-22T21:22:32Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Considering he played every offensive down last year, I think it is quite a slap in the face that the Bears signed Bush. What would they need another running back for? I think every single team uses multiple backs on a regular basis at this point. Forte is being an idiot about this. Here’s what his agent says: > [@](#): > > “Since drafting Matt in 2008, the Bears have signed Kevin Jones, Chester Taylor and Marion Barber, all ostensibly to serve as Matt’s back-up,” Forte’s agent Adisa Bakari said. “To sign yet another running back, prior to completing a contract with Matt suggests disregard for Matt and his contributions to the Bears.” Does this make sense to anyone on earth except an agent who is trying to get his guy to hold out for a bigger deal? The Bears acquired all of those guys to back up Forte. There’s nothing “ostensible” about that, and how on earth can that be perceived as an insult? If anybody should be insulted, it’s Barber, since he is obviously going to get cut. I’m waiting for Forte to reject the Bears’ next offer because he needs to feed his family. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/627 "2012-03-22T21:24:17Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > Eh, on second thought, I shouldn’t sell short the idea that this is just a really [unimpressive RB free agency class](http://www.footballsfuture.com/2012/fa/rb.html). Tolbert and Bush have figured prominently in recent fantasy football seasons, but IRL, if you take a step back, their career trajectories look really [boring](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TolbMi00.htm) and [ordinary](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BushMi00.htm). (Bush’s 2011 almost looks cool given those receiving yards, but then look at that un-sexy 3.8 YPC average when McFadden put up a 5.4 on the same offense.) > > Really, look at those free agents. Other than \*maybe \*Peyton Hillis, is there anyone on that list that you would give two fucks about if it weren’t for fantasy football? I agree with this; Bush is decent complement, but he’s nothing special, and he did not hold up well with a heavy workload. Tolbert has more value IMO, especially in that he can also play FB; Hillis too, but he seems to somewhat of a deranged asshole. Given the alternatives, drafting Richardson at #4 seems like an OK choice to me. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/628 "2012-03-22T21:26:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Forte is being an idiot about this. Here’s what his agent says: > … If anybody should be insulted, it’s Barber, since he is obviously going to get cut. I’m waiting for Forte to reject the Bears’ next offer because he needs to feed his family. I wouldn’t necessarily ascribe the dickishness of the agent to the player. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/629 "2012-03-22T21:40:26Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I wouldn’t necessarily ascribe the dickishness of the agent to the player. Nevermind: I just saw Forte’s remarks > [@](#): > > “There’s only so many times a man that has done everything he’s been asked to do can be disrespected!” Forte tweeted. “Guess the GOOD GUYs do finish last.” Douche. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/630 "2012-03-22T22:39:34Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Then again, IIRC, they haven’t seen fit to make the rule book public, so I’m probably shouting into the wind on this one. Official rulebook [here](http://www.nfl.com/rulebook). ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/631 "2012-03-22T22:51:08Z")
Huh. That’s a first. As recently as 2 or 3 years ago I remember searching online and being able to find only their abridged abstraction of the rules. And scanning the Official Rulebook even now, I must admit, there’s a gnawing suspicion in the back of my head that the NFL has a set of secret protocols, known only to crew chiefs, the Commissioner, the Competition Committee, and Peter King. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/632 "2012-03-22T23:08:55Z")
Speaking of the Competition Committee, their [list of proposed rule changes](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/21/nfl-weighs-changes-on-overtime-defenseless-players-trade-deadline/) is out. I dislike a lot of that, and am indifferent to some, but I \*love \*the added roster flexibility. Half-season IR seems like a no-brainer (if Calvin Johnson breaks his collarbone in Week 2, should he really have to miss the postseason because the Lions can’t afford to hold his roster spot all year?). Ditto the roster exemption for a concussed player – encourages not just safety, but honest reporting. I’m also digging that they might move back the trade deadline two weeks. Probably there still won’t be a big trade market, but with better-defined buyers and sellers it should at least be somewhat more active. OTOH, I hate the idea of automatically reviewing every turnover only slightly less I hate the idea of automatically reviewing every scoring play; Christ, let’s _ **go** _ already. A question about #1, which allows the replay official instead of the referee on the field to determine which plays are subject to review: exactly what situations does this rules change apply to? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/633 "2012-03-22T23:10:34Z")
What Varlos said. Teach me to rely on FO message board wisdom and not to go looking for it again before I posted. Thanks for the link, Ellis. I wonder if this is a change that came in with Goodell? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/634 "2012-03-22T23:17:21Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Official rulebook [here](http://www.nfl.com/rulebook). I think that’s just a fancy new wrapper the old NFL Rules Digest. It’s not the Official NFL Rule Book which is much more comprehensive, they keep that internal. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/635 "2012-03-22T23:32:44Z")
If that’s still a digest, it’s a newer and more detailed one. They also never used any language approximating “official playing rules” for the digest in the past. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/636 "2012-03-22T23:35:27Z")
It’s the official rulebook, and it was only made public starting last season. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/637 "2012-03-23T10:18:09Z")
I think Forte has a point. Try to think about this as any other job instead of a super awesome one that you all wish you had and can’t think about rationally. Yeah, he makes a lot of money, but nobody wants to make substantially less than their peers for doing the same job. That goes for a retail cashier to an executive and everything in between. He put in his time with his company, and he wants to be paid like his peers. He wants to feel respected and wanted. This is something I can damn near guarantee every person in this thread has bitched about at some point. But when a pro athlete feels the same way on a bigger stage? “Douche.” “Idiot.” “He should take 20% less and like it!” This will be the first season that Matt Forte, **outright starter and workhorse** Matt Forte, makes more than his backup. Read that again. The guy who is _backing him up_ has made more money than him in every season but this coming one. Less work, less responsibility, more pay. And to top it off, even though Forte’s now making more money, Michael Bush has a longer contract and (seemingly) more stability. And all in a job where your useful earning window is a decade, if you’re lucky. Don’t underestimate the stability aspect. It might seem meaningless when you can be cut at just about any time, but it kinda sucks to not know where you’re going to live next year. It sucks for his whole family, if he has a wife and kids. So the Twitter remarks are childish. That doesn’t change the situation much. I’d be pissed off if I were him too. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/638 "2012-03-23T10:29:05Z")
On a related note, I have the opposite impression when I heard about Bush signing with the Bears. $3.5 million a season? Holy cow, that seems like an awful lot to pay for a backup RB who might see 120 carries. Barber had 114 last season and Forte missed 4 games. How many other teams are committing that much to the backup RB position (with a clear workhorse)? Carolina is paying Jonathan Stewart $4 million per. New Orleans pays Pierre Thomas $3 million a year. Other than those two, nobody else is really close than I can find. It strikes me as a really poor way to manage your cap. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/639 "2012-03-23T12:18:02Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > I think Forte has a point. … This will be the first season that Matt Forte, **outright starter and workhorse** Matt Forte, makes more than his backup. I would have agreed with you last season; they have lowballed him. But he’s franchise tagged, which means he’ll make almost $8 million this year. That isn’t preventing from a big payday, it _is_ a big payday. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215/640 "2012-03-23T14:04:48Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > Try to think about this as any other job instead of a super awesome one that you all wish you had and can’t think about rationally. I think you’ve missed the point. Nobody criticized Forte for wanting more money. They said he’s stupid to be the Bears signed a backup are stupid and that when you’re in line to make close to $8 million next year, it’s stupid to say it proves “nice guys finish last.” Why shouldn’t the Bears get a quality backup? I think every single team rotates running backs at this point, the Bears were not satisfied with their backup last year, and they need insurance in case Forte gets hurt or holds out. > [@](#): > > This will be the first season that Matt Forte, **outright starter and workhorse** Matt Forte, makes more than his backup. That’s not because the Bears have been screwing him, it’s because he’s at the end of his rookie contract. He’s 26 and going into his fifth season, and his first contract wound up undervaluing his future performance. So he’s in line for a large raise, and he’s earned it. But it doesn’t mean the Bears have done something wrong by signing a backup running back. He’s an idiot to say so. > [@](#): > > And to top it off, even though Forte’s now making more money, Michael Bush has a longer contract and (seemingly) more stability. Bush doesn’t have more stability. He’s the backup, which means he’s more expendable: as noted, the Bears have signed and released backup RBs several years in a row. The Bears want Forte for more than one year, but the team and Forte have not been able to agree on a longer-term deal even though they’ve been talking for quite a while. They want Forte for more than one year, just not for the amount Forte has been asking for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-nfl-pre-draft-discussion/612215.md?page=33)