# 2012 Tour de France **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 30, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-tour-de-france/626813 "2012-06-30T15:40:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-tour-de-france/626813/161 "2012-07-24T11:37:55Z")
:eek: Jesus - the Bozic one makes it sound like he’s lucky to be alive, given the bike went under the car. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-tour-de-france/626813/162 "2012-07-24T22:18:31Z")
Some lovely pics of this year’s Tour [here](http://totallycoolpix.com/2012/07/the-tour-de-france-2012-in-100-pictures/) - 100 of 'em. Also the boston globe pic site has many of the same but the final installment isn’t up yet. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-tour-de-france/626813/163 "2012-07-25T00:56:28Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > You can say the same about the green jersey. How do we know Wiggins wasn’t actually the best sprinter there? If a sprinter was in contention for the GC he’d be a fool to waste energy competing for the green jersey. OK. The green jersey is rubbish too. You’ve convinced me. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > No. The reason he wasn’t up their with the best is because he’s not the best all round cyclist. All round cyclist? The Tour winner is always one of the strongest climbers. Being a good time trialist is also a big help. Being a good sprinter is meaningless. So, say, 80% is climbing ability? 20% TT ability? That’s your “all round cyclist”. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > He may or may not be a better climber than Wiggins but we don’t know because his overall cycling performance meant he and others like him werent a threat. I’m pretty sure that Wiggins wasn’t the best climber there yet he won the GC. You don’t necessarily have to be the best (especially if you’re a great time trialist), but you need to be among the elite. Wiggens obviously is. But I bet the best is among the top 10 in the GC. Certainly not 26th. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > The guy looked very comfortable but he had tremendous help from his team and he got dropped by Froome in one of the early mountain stages. Wiggins won because he was the best time trialer, can keep up with the top guys in the hills as long as they’re maintaining a consistent effort, and he didn’t have any bad luck. Right. Is the difference between Voeckler and the real contenders just their time trialing abilities? Voeckler finished over an hour behind in the GC. That’s not all time trialing. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > The polka dot jersey competition started because sometimes the best climbers weren’t featuring in the GC standings or stage wins and the organizers thought you should get something for being the first to summit a climb. Originally they had that time advantage at the top added to their GC time, then it was changed to a separate points competition. If they went back to some kind of time technique it would make the climbs more interesting, but there’s nothing fundamentally worthless about having separate competitions that give more individuals and teams a chance at some prize money. It’s a competition to reward the best climber. It fails at that. Fails pretty badly. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-tour-de-france/626813/164 "2012-07-25T01:54:37Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > You don’t necessarily have to be the best (especially if you’re a great time trialist), but you need to be among the elite. Wiggens obviously is. But I bet the best is among the top 10 in the GC. Certainly not 26th. Voeckler finished 4th in the GC last year, just 3 minutes and 20 seconds behind Cadel Evans. He had a knee injury at the start of this year’s tour and performed badly in the first flat stages which nearly caused him to abandon. I’d say he is definitely among the elite. > [@](#): > > Is the difference between Voeckler and the real contenders just their time trialing abilities? Voeckler finished over an hour behind in the GC. That’s not all time trialing. No it’s not all in the TT, but see above about his knee injury and do you understand that if you go all out competing on the climbs the way he was that you can be left with nothing in the tank for a subsequent stage? If Wiggins had gone all out on the climbs he might have had some nothing stages as well. Don’t forget that ALL Wiggins had to do was keep up with the other GC contenders, he didn’t have to attack, he didn’t have to push the pace at all, he just had to sit there and wait for the attacks to come to him. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-tour-de-france/626813/165 "2012-07-25T04:16:51Z")
Actually I think you will find that much of Voeckler’s time loss will have been deliberate. If your plan is or becomes to win stages or win climbs by being in breakaways, you need to lose a heap of time so that the GC contenders know you aren’t a threat, so they will let you go. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-tour-de-france/626813/166 "2012-07-25T04:23:11Z")
I wasn’t following him at the time but I remember him being right at the back of the peleton during the first flat stages and the commentators mentioning that he was really struggling with a leg injury. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-tour-de-france/626813/167 "2012-07-27T02:06:41Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Voeckler finished 4th in the GC last year, just 3 minutes and 20 seconds behind Cadel Evans. He had a knee injury at the start of this year’s tour and performed badly in the first flat stages which nearly caused him to abandon. I’d say he is definitely among the elite. When healthy. If he’s healthy and among the elite, he’s going after the yellow, not the polka dot. That was his consolation this year. In years when he did finish high in the GC, he wasn’t in contention for the KofM. And it’s not just about Voeckler. The King of the Mountain seems to be rarely, if ever, won by the actual “King”. If it is, it’s more of a fluke. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > No it’s not all in the TT, but see above about his knee injury and do you understand that if you go all out competing on the climbs the way he was that you can be left with nothing in the tank for a subsequent stage? If Wiggins had gone all out on the climbs he might have had some nothing stages as well. Don’t forget that ALL Wiggins had to do was keep up with the other GC contenders, he didn’t have to attack, he didn’t have to push the pace at all, he just had to sit there and wait for the attacks to come to him. The real contenders, all of whom should be KotM contenders, don’t try to win the KotM. That alone makes it a questionable title. It’s like winning the NIT. > [@Princhester](#): > > Actually I think you will find that much of Voeckler’s time loss will have been deliberate. If your plan is or becomes to win stages or win climbs by being in breakaways, you need to lose a heap of time so that the GC contenders know you aren’t a threat, so they will let you go. Of course. To prove you are the “best” climber, you have to convince other great climbers that you’re not a GC threat. What a great competition. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2012-tour-de-france/626813.md?page=8)