# 2013 MLB Hall of Fame Ballot (let the fireworks begin) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 27, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264 "2012-11-27T14:48:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/161 "2013-01-09T19:06:58Z")
What a farce. What possible justification would a voter have for not choosing Piazza, for one? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/162 "2013-01-09T19:09:41Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > Just announced: Nobody got in today. No Barry. No Roger. No Sammy. The problem with what the voters are doing, really, is that if they keep it up in a few years the Hall of Fame will be meaningless. A Hall that excludes some of the best players of all time will, ultimately, become a historical artifact, irrelevant to current fans. It’s stupid and it irritates me. Mike Piazza belongs in the Hall of Fame. Dammit, so does Barry Bonds. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/163 "2013-01-09T19:09:54Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > What a farce. What possible justification would a voter have for not choosing Piazza, for one? What a colossal joke. Seriously. Piazza and Biggio. Someone make a case against them that isn’t stupid, please. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/164 "2013-01-09T19:11:22Z")
[Yup, Biggio came the closest at about 68%.](http://bbwaa.com/) 13 players got more than 20% of the vote, one more than the SDMB vote. I’d like to compare some of the other results here. For those in a hurry: Biggio, Morris, Bagwell, Piazza and Raines all surpassed 50%. Lower down: Clemens (37.6%), Bonds (36.2%), McGwire (16.9%), and Sosa (12.5%- WOW). ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/165 "2013-01-09T19:13:21Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I don’t mind keeping out users. But give me your rationale and then apply it to everybody fairly. “I feel like that guy probably used but this guy probably didn’t” is not a fair standard, and anyone promulgating it deserves to be chastised. I don’t see why that’s not a fair standard. [I also don’t see why you spent most of your post disputing the position of that guy. I’m not defending that guy. I’m just saying that guy being wrong doesn’t mean that no standard at all can be drawn and you need to let in even known users.] ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/166 "2013-01-09T19:17:19Z")
Hopefully the writers signed their own death warrant this year. The pessimist in me thinks otherwise, however. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/167 "2013-01-09T19:22:42Z")
Ok, here are the current SDMB poll results for the candidates who got into the double digits or close: > [@Dopers](#): > > Jeff Bagwell 60 69.77% > Mike Piazza 60 69.77% > Craig Biggio 58 67.44% > Tim Raines 57 66.28% > Barry Bonds 50 58.14% > Roger Clemens 46 53.49% > Curt Schilling 39 45.35% > Alan Trammell 35 40.70% > Edgar Martinez 33 38.37% > Jack Morris 25 29.07% > Larry Walker 23 26.74% > Mark McGwire 19 22.09% > Sammy Sosa 14 16.28% > Lee Smith 13 15.12% > Fred McGriff 9 10.47% > Kenny Lofton 13 15.12% > Dale Murphy 13 15.12% > Don Mattingly 11 12.79% > Raphael Palmeiro 7 8.14% > Bernie Williams 7 8.14% And here’s the BBWAA: > [@Baseball Writers](#): > > Craig Biggio 388 (68.2%) > Jack Morris 385 (67.7%) > Jeff Bagwell 339 (59.6%) > Mike Piazza 329 (57.8%) > Tim Raines 297 (52.2%) > Lee Smith 272 (47.8%) > Curt Schilling 221 (38.8%) > Roger Clemens 214 (37.6%) > Barry Bonds 206 (36.2%) > Edgar Martinez 204 (35.9%) > Alan Trammell 191 (33.6%) > Larry Walker 123 (21.6%) > Fred McGriff 118 (20.7%) > Dale Murphy 106 (18.6%) > Mark McGwire 96 (16.9%) > Don Mattingly 75 (13.2%) > Sammy Sosa 71 (12.5%) > Rafael Palmeiro 50 (8.8%) > Bernie Williams 19 (3.3%) > Kenny Lofton 18 (3.2%) > Sandy Alomar Jr. 16 (2.8%) That’s the last year for Murphy. Morris has one more year. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/168 "2013-01-09T19:24:07Z")
Lee Smith gets 47%, Alan Trammell gets 33%. It would be funny if it wasn’t so damn pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/169 "2013-01-09T19:28:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [Yup, Biggio came the closest at about 68%.](http://bbwaa.com/) 13 players got more than 20% of the vote, one more than the SDMB vote. I’d like to compare some of the other results here. For those in a hurry: Biggio, Morris, Bagwell, Piazza and Raines all surpassed 50%. Lower down: Clemens (37.6%), Bonds (36.2%), McGwire (16.9%), and Sosa (12.5%- WOW). The thing with Sosa is that there is a very strong argument that he really isn’t a Hall of Famer even if you discount PEDs. I know that seems wacky, but he’s an extreme example of a player whose primary qualification was significantly jacked up by context. In a strong class, you can quite reasonably argue he was not one of the ten best players on the ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/170 "2013-01-09T19:41:59Z")
I agree entirely about Sosa, but I didn’t think he’d get only 12.5% of the vote. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/171 "2013-01-09T19:52:24Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > What a farce. What possible justification would a voter have for not choosing Piazza, for one? He would have been a shoo in had he picked up that splintered bat and sent it back at Clemens, just twice as hard and more accurately. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/172 "2013-01-09T19:56:25Z")
Aaron Sele got a vote…Aaron Sele. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/173 "2013-01-09T20:00:49Z")
Jeff Kent will be on the ballot next year. I’m certain that would annoy (anger?) Bonds if Kent got into the Hall before he did. That’s looking likely. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/174 "2013-01-09T20:08:44Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t see why that’s not a fair standard. Because, in general, I don’t like standards that rely on hunches or what somebody looked liked, especially when we have evidence that contradicts the notion that PED users are more likely to be big bulky HR hitters. Jeff Bagwell has HOF stats. There is no evidence that Jeff Bagwell used PEDs other than hunches and body-type arguments. And yet plenty of voters didn’t vote for Jeff Bagwell, and the data we have indicates that they were folks that didn’t vote for Bonds (which I think is a good proxy for non-PED voters). It’s not fair. But anyway, even beyond the PED issue, the fact that Craig Biggio didn’t make it in is evidence that the process is fatally flawed, and that the voting roll needs a massive update. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/175 "2013-01-09T20:13:42Z")
Career WAR: Edgar Martinez - 64.4 Craig Biggio - 62.1 Mark McGwire - 58.7 Mike Piazza - 56.1 Sammy Sosa - 54.8 Kenny Lofton - 64.9 Kenny only got 18 votes, and won’t be eligible to appear on the ballot anymore. The other guys I mentioned will remain eligible. Makes perfect sense. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/176 "2013-01-09T20:17:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I am intrigued by today’s votes, I have to say. If we on the SDMB can’t even elect no-brainers like Mike Piazza or Tim Raines, the BBWAA will be hopeless. They’ve fooled me before, though. Looks like you nailed that one, Rick. I’m a little surprised Biggio didn’t get in, but I shouldn’t be. The writers on the panel have all covered baseball for ten years or more, but some of them have done so only as a minor sideline. To folks who couldn’t tell you right off what OBP stands for, Biggio looks like a margiinal talent, as did Yogi Berra when he didn’t get in the first year he was eligible. Let’s face it: when the best catcher in the game up to that point can’t get in on the first ballot, neither can a guy like Biggio, whose skills on defense and in the less glamorous aspects of the offensive game don’t register with the game’s hangers-on. Hopefully, Biggio gets in next year with Maddux and Thomas. Who knows–Bagwell, Piazza, and Glavine might join them. We may well go from 0 to 6 in one year. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/177 "2013-01-09T20:56:04Z")
I wonder what would happen in a one-and-done method of voting. Personally, I’d be glad to see the end of this politicization and bullshit of first-ballot vs. non arguments. Put up or shut up. In or out. If you don’t know whether Mike Piazza belongs in the HoF now, you shouldn’t have a vote. If you want to “punish” someone, call them names or don’t send them a Christmas card. My opinion of the baseball writers is… not good. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/178 "2013-01-09T21:05:40Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > …the fact that Craig Biggio didn’t make it in is evidence that the process is fatally flawed, and that the voting roll needs a massive update. He’ll probably make it in next year. There have been plenty of “shoo-ins” who didn’t make it on their first try but nobody cares much once they’re in. As for Bonds, Clemens et al, some of that crowd will make it in eventually. Let 'em stew in their steroidal juices for awhile. On the other hand, I’m not quite sure about [Deacon White](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/whitede01.shtml). Great mustache, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/179 "2013-01-09T21:10:04Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > He’ll probably make it in next year. > > There have been plenty of “shoo-ins” who didn’t make it on their first try but nobody cares much once they’re in. Yeah, that fair. It’s just more fun to be righteously indignant, I guess. 🙂 I do think that the suggested change to the voting scheme I saw from Posnanski (although I think he got it from somewhere else) is a great idea. Three options instead of two: Yes, Not Now, and No. This lets all those “not on the first ballot” guys get their say without all the silliness of voting No on somebody that you actually think probably is an eventual Hall of Famer. And as long as Yes and Not Now is over some threshold you stay on the ballot. > [@](#): > > As for Bonds, Clemens et al, some of that crowd will make it in eventually. Let 'em stew in their steroidal juices for awhile. I dunno, I think that it’s going to take some sort of veterans committee to get Bonds and Clemens in. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264/180 "2013-01-09T22:47:22Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > It’s just more fun to be righteously indignant, I guess. That. I’m surprised at the number of voters who are still up on their high horses about something they knew about all along, knew was prevalent, and even cheered for. By my age, I should know better than to be surprised about encountering massive hypocrisy, but there it is. And that alone is enough to discredit the entire body. If we’re going to indignantly disqualify everyone who played in the Steroid Era just because we don’t know for sure if anyone was clean, why not the entire Amphetamines Era and the entire Nicotine and Alcohol Era too? Is \*anyone \*pure enough to satisfy some of these sanctimonious twits? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-mlb-hall-of-fame-ballot-let-the-fireworks-begin/642264.md?page=10)