# 2013 State of The Union - Let's Go **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 13, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142 "2013-02-13T02:13:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/61 "2013-02-13T15:28:58Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The idea that background checks and other regulatory efforts already exist is frankly bullshit. Not only are background checks not universal, but the NRA has done everything it can to undermine the ability to carry out any other similar regulations. > > Jon Stewart covered this deftly just a few weeks ago. It was actually pretty eye opening, even for me. I love the Daily Show and watch at least a couple of them every week. But his coverage of gun issues has been misleading to say the least. You are wrong on the facts here. Background checks are done every time, everywhere by all gun dealers. I’ve bought many guns through gun dealers: Some huge stores and some a guy in a small room in the back of the gun club. Every time I have to fill out the form for the background check and it must pass before I got my gun. The only thing not covered is sales by private individuals who don’t sell guns for a living. This makes sense, as there needs to be some way for regular people like me to sell a gun. Go back to my example from earlier in the thread: If I give my nephew a gun to go deer hunting with, should I be locked up for not doing a background check? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/62 "2013-02-13T15:56:35Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > “Our Government shouldn’t make promises we cannot keep, but we MUST keep the promises we’ve already made.” Shame that Obama didn’t bother with the first half of that sentence during his first term. I didn’t watch it. All I know is that he came out and ran his mouth instead of telling us the honest truth: “State of the Union? We’re fucked. Have a nice evening, folks”. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/63 "2013-02-13T15:58:31Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Shame that Obama didn’t bother with the first half of that sentence during his first term. > > I didn’t watch it. All I know is that he came out and ran his mouth instead of telling us the honest truth: “State of the Union? We’re fucked. Have a nice evening, folks”. Why would he say that? The economy is improving, the deficit is going down, and the wars are winding down. All of this in spite of Republican attempts to run the ship into a reef so that they can command the wreckage. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/64 "2013-02-13T15:58:46Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > Yes, they are supposed to sit and appear impartial, but I think the 3 conservative justices skipped the SOTU address last night. I did not see all of them there. I heard two skipped. Alito and Scalia. With luck they were home drafting their resignation letters. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/65 "2013-02-13T16:09:40Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It doesn’t exist. Gun sales at gun shows are not treated any differently than gun sales anywhere else. [Not that simple.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_shows_in_the_United_States) > [@](#): > > **Controversies** > > Beginning in the early 2000s, gun shows became controversial in the United States.[4][5] Those concerned about these events claim that American gun shows are a primary source of illegally trafficked firearms, both within the United States and abroad.[6][7] Those supporting gun shows include gun clubs and their membership, especially the National Rifle Association, and their response has been massive because they feel their Second Amendment rights are being jeopardized.[8][9] > > U.S. federal law requires persons engaged in interstate firearm commerce, or those who are “engaged in the business” of dealing firearms, to hold a Federal Firearms License and perform background checks through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System maintained by the FBI prior to transferring a firearm. Under the terms of the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, however, individuals “not engaged in the business” of dealing firearms, or who only make “occasional” sales within their state of residence, are under no requirement to conduct background checks on purchasers or maintain records of sale (although even private sellers are forbidden under federal law from selling firearms to persons they have reason to believe are felons or otherwise prohibited from purchasing firearms). > > Those seeking to close the “Gun Show Loophole” argue that it provides convicted felons and other prohibited purchasers (i.e., domestic abusers, substance abusers, those who have been adjudicated as “mental defectives,” etc.) with opportunities to evade background checks, as they can easily buy firearms from private sellers with no accountability or oversight. > > Use of the “Gun Show Loophole” has been advocated by terrorists. In the summer of 2011, Adam Gadahn declared that “America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms.” He also incorrectly claimed that, “You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card,” Gadahn urged Western extremists to follow this path. Subsequent news analysis indicated that individuals could not actually buy a fully automatic assault rifle at gun shows, although purchases of semi-automatic handguns and extended magazines remain legal without a criminal background check.[10][11] > > The term “Gun Show Loophole” has been contentious with gun rights advocates, however. They claim there is no “loophole,” only a long-standing tradition of free commerce between private parties that heretofore has not been restricted in the context of secondary, intrastate firearm sales.[12][13] Furthermore, they argue that the term “Gun Show Loophole” is misleading, as private firearm sellers are not required to perform background checks regardless of location—whether they are at a gun show, a flea market, their home, or anywhere else. They also challenge federal jurisdiction in intrastate transactions between private parties, which they argue exceeds the federal power created by the Commerce Clause.[14] > > In July 2009, Representatives Michael Castle and Carolyn McCarthy introduced the Gun Show Loophole Closing Act of 2009 (H.R. 2324)[15] in the U.S. House of Representatives. Sen. Frank Lautenberg introduced similar legislation, the “Gun Show Background Check Act of 2009”(S. 843), in the U.S. Senate. As of October 2009, the House version of the bill had 35 co-sponsors (mostly Democrats) and the Senate version had 15 co-sponsors, all Democrats. > > Presently, 17 states regulate private firearm sales at gun shows. Seven states require background checks on all gun sales at gun shows (California, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Oregon, New York, Illinois and Colorado). Four states (Hawaii, Maryland, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania) require background checks on all handgun, but not long gun, purchasers at gun shows. Six states require individuals to obtain a permit to purchase handguns that involves a background check (Massachusetts, Michigan, North Carolina, Iowa, Nebraska). Certain counties in Florida require background checks on all private sales of handguns at gun shows. The remaining 33 states do not restrict private, intrastate sales of firearms at gun shows in any manner.[16][17] ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/66 "2013-02-13T16:14:52Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Go back to my example from earlier in the thread: If I give my nephew a gun to go deer hunting with, should I be locked up for not doing a background check? Maybe. What if it turns out your nephew is a crazy drug-fiend who’s had run-ins with the law or had been locked up for mental health reasons, unknown to you (because why should you know every detail about someone who’s not your own son). He then takes your deer rifle out and shoots a bunch of co-workers with it. Maybe if you’d done a background check, he’d have never gotten that gun. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/67 "2013-02-13T16:18:47Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I heard two skipped. Alito and Scalia. With luck they were home drafting their resignation letters. According to [this,](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/02/12/scalia-obama-speech-state-of-union/1914577/) Scalia, Alito and Thomas all skipped it. Scalia calls the whole SOTU-address thing a “childish spectacle.” (Would he be snubbing Romney’s address, I wonder?) ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/68 "2013-02-13T16:21:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Sen. Rubio last night: > Presidents in both parties – from John F. Kennedy to Ronald Reagan – have known that our free enterprise economy is the source of our middle class prosperity. > > But President Obama? He believes it’s the cause of our problems. That the economic downturn happened because our government didn’t tax enough, spend enough and control enough. And, therefore, as you heard tonight, his solution to virtually every problem we face is for Washington to tax more, borrow more and spend more. Rubio running against imaginary Obama. If the Republicans want to win any future elections, it might help if they didn’t make shit up. I’d like a cite to “Obama hates free enterprise system” ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/69 "2013-02-13T16:24:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > According to [this,](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/02/12/scalia-obama-speech-state-of-union/1914577/) Scalia, Alito and Thomas all skipped it. Scalia calls the whole SOTU-address thing a “childish spectacle.” (Would he be snubbing Romney’s address, I wonder?) It is not at all surprising to me that their boot-licking butt boy Thomas bowed out as well. I actually would have been shocked had he attended without them. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/70 "2013-02-13T16:27:50Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > fully automatic machine guns are already banned Not true, at least in some states. [http://www.ehow.com/how\_6742869\_fully-automatic-gun-license.html](http://www.ehow.com/how_6742869_fully-automatic-gun-license.html) “If you live in the United States and want to own a fully automatic weapon, it is possible, but there are many restrictions and controls in place.” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/71 "2013-02-13T16:29:48Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I love the Daily Show and watch at least a couple of them every week. But his coverage of gun issues has been misleading to say the least. You are wrong on the facts here. > > Background checks are done every time, everywhere by all gun dealers. I’ve bought many guns through gun dealers: Some huge stores and some a guy in a small room in the back of the gun club. Every time I have to fill out the form for the background check and it must pass before I got my gun. So your evidence is that 100% of **Debaser** gun purchases involve a background check. Not very convincing, in my opinion. Doesn’t really explain why the response from gun types is No Background Checks! instead of Okay, we do that already anyway. So, what percentage of nonDebaser gun purchases do not involve a background check? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/72 "2013-02-13T16:31:04Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Rubio running against imaginary Obama. If the Republicans want to win any future elections, it might help if they didn’t make shit up. I’d like a cite to “Obama hates free enterprise system” Rubio was speaking to the FOX Newsies and the TP base. It doesn’t have to be true; it just has to be appropriately oppositional. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/73 "2013-02-13T16:50:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Not that simple.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_shows_in_the_United_States) Your cite agrees with everything I said. If a private individual wants to sell you a gun they can do so. The rules are the same whether they are in their garage or at a gun show. Licensed dealers (FFLs) have their own more stringent rules. These also don’t change as a result of being at a gun show. Background checks must be made. If you want to ban gun shows then go ahead and suggest it. But don’t pretend that a loophole exists when it clearly doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/74 "2013-02-13T16:54:06Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Maybe. > > What if it turns out your nephew is a crazy drug-fiend who’s had run-ins with the law or had been locked up for mental health reasons, unknown to you (because why should you know every detail about someone who’s not your own son). He then takes your deer rifle out and shoots a bunch of co-workers with it. > > Maybe if you’d done a background check, he’d have never gotten that gun. There are laws that people known to the seller to be a felon can get you into trouble. But it’s not reasonable, in my opinion to have all sales go through the same process as gun dealers must do. If you are selling a hundred or a thousand guns a year it’s reasonable to have different regulations than if you do it once or twice. Forcing full background checks on all private sales would also criminalize a lot of law abiding people. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/75 "2013-02-13T16:56:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > According to [this,](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/02/12/scalia-obama-speech-state-of-union/1914577/) Scalia, Alito and Thomas all skipped it. Scalia calls the whole SOTU-address thing a “childish spectacle.” (Would he be snubbing Romney’s address, I wonder?) That depends. Would Romney have openly baited and challenged the SCOTUS right in their face during his State of the Union with the court’s decorum preventing any response? I would do the same thing if I were them. Once Obama started lying about them to their face in front of the whole country, I can see getting a bit pissed at the notion that I must both #1. Show up. and #2. Sit still and endure it without so much as making facial expressions during it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/76 "2013-02-13T16:56:28Z")
So, you listened to the whole speech and all you heard was “guns”? Its a good thing to be able to focus, concentrate. Unless you over-do it. Just sayin’, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/77 "2013-02-13T16:59:31Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > Not true, at least in some states. > [http://www.ehow.com/how\_6742869\_fully-automatic-gun-license.html](http://www.ehow.com/how_6742869_fully-automatic-gun-license.html) > > “If you live in the United States and want to own a fully automatic weapon, it is possible, but there are many restrictions and controls in place.” This is a nitpick. They have been effectively banned since the 1930’s. They are possible to get, but it’s very onerous and they are extremely highly regulated. I think the term “banned” can be used given the level of difficulty. There has only been one legally owned automatic weapon used in a murder, last I knew. It was a crooked cop who used his duty weapon to kill someone. The point stands. Automatic machine guns have been (effectively) banned for a long time and aren’t used in crimes (with extremely rare exceptions). Obama deliberately used misleading terminology to exploit the fact that many people don’t know this to advance his gun control agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/78 "2013-02-13T17:01:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, you listened to the whole speech and all you heard was “guns”? Its a good thing to be able to focus, concentrate. Unless you over-do it. Just sayin’, is all. Yes. That’s the only word I heard. At the very end of the speech. To all the people wearing green ribbons. To the loudest applause of the night. Thanks for your valuable contribution to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/79 "2013-02-13T17:02:41Z")
> [@](#): > > …to exploit the fact that many people don’t know this to advance his gun control agenda. What? He’s exaggerating? Gasp! And in the face of solid research by the NRA that proves guns save 200 gazillion lives every day! Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142/80 "2013-02-13T17:05:30Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So your evidence is that 100% of **Debaser** gun purchases involve a background check. > > Not very convincing, in my opinion. Doesn’t really explain why the response from gun types is No Background Checks! instead of Okay, we do that already anyway. > > So, what percentage of nonDebaser gun purchases do not involve a background check? What are you disputing, exactly? That gun dealers all must do background checks? This is a fact. It’s not in dispute. That only private sales between individuals don’t require background checks? This is also not in dispute. Just read up on wikipedia if you want more information, it’s already been posted to this thread. If you want some statistics on how many purchases are done by what methods you can go ahead and ask and maybe we can find some information. But don’t ask like I’m making things up. It’s national laws we’re talking about here that have been in place for a long time. It’s not up for debate. I suspect you are just confused if your only source of information on the subject was the Daily Show given that their coverage of guns and background checks has been extremely misleading. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/2013-state-of-the-union-lets-go/650142.md?page=5)